"I pledge allegience to my black people" - Page 11 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #**151** 03-25-2006, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

???

As far as I know, there are no living emancipated black slaves in the US.

If there are, then call the Guinness Book of World Records, because you're talking about one seriously OLD person!

You did note the words, "since the beginning," I assume? Many of their descendants, some of whom are still living, it will surprise you to learn, didn't have much more of a leg up. I'm not asking you to be a bleeding heart, just to face facts.

I agree that the line you left out is used as an excuse too often. Doesn't mean there's not some truth to it. Why do you suppose democracy works better here than in say, Somalia or Iraq? My guess is our present day culture is the end result of many generations worth of social evolution and trial and error. Standing on the shoulders of giants, or something like that.

I get real tired of the *****y "we want reparations" crap. BUT, manuevering our way out of this impasse will not be easy, and saying "shut up and pull yourself up by your bootstraps" will have limited success, methinks.

cmac2012 · #**152** 03-25-2006, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Are water and air in the USA cleaner or less clean now than when the various acts were signed into law in the 60's and 70's?

I did mention that large scale, corporate polluting was an area in which legal strictures would be useful. I wouldn't suggest that we are so enlightened that we can just dispense with police forces. You see what happens in a blackout or hurricane spawned flooding.

My point is that cultivation of public will to do good is just as, if not more, important than passing and enforcing laws. If the community is rife with corruption and cynicism, you can't even get honest police officers, and enforcement of laws suffers. Though I ***** about police abuses of firepower now and then, I have no doubt that the relative average honesty of our police forces to those of say, Mexico or Colombia, is quite high.

peragro · #**153** 03-30-2006, 01:48 PM

My favourite phrase "... the soft bigotry of low expectations."

Failing their own
Jonah Goldberg

March 30, 2006

I'M THINKING of a cabal of radical legislators who don't reflect the views of average Americans or even the interests of their own constituents. They use wedge issues, play the race card and push their party to the ideological extreme. They collude with outside activists, many of whom use religion as a Trojan horse for a radical political agenda.

Sound like those perennial paladins of villainy, the congressional GOP? Guess again. This is the Congressional Black Caucus.

The caucus lives in a fantasy in which it is the "conscience of the Congress." Immune to the sort of scrutiny that many other groups receive, it has benefited from the soft bigotry of low expectations for decades.

As the Economist recently noted, gerrymandering and Democratic politics have resulted in a caucus well to the left of black America. Only four of 43 members of the group voted to ban partial-birth abortion in 2003, even though a majority of blacks favored such a ban. Most African Americans favor school choice, but because the caucus is firmly ensconced in the teacher-union racket, it bars the schoolhouse door to black kids who want a better education via vouchers. A majority of blacks oppose outright racial quotas, but don't tell that to the caucus. Or that blacks are heavily opposed to gay marriage.

Why pick on the blacks in Congress? Because they represent black leadership in America, and it has been on their watch that black America has descended into such a mess.

A slew of new research shows how sorry is the plight of American blacks, most acutely men. Black men, particularly those who do not finish high school, have been falling off a cliff for decades. If you include blacks in prison or not seeking work — which conventional unemployment surveys don't — the true jobless rate for black men in their 20s without a high school diploma is 72%. At the height of the economic boom, in 2000, it was still about 65%, according to the New York Times. This is twice the rate for white dropouts and three times that of Latinos. A UC Berkeley researcher found that black dropouts in their late 20s are more likely to be in prison than working.

Statistics on the black family are, if possible, even more depressing. In a moving essay in the Washington Post, Joy Jones lamented how wedlock has become unfashionable in much of black America. A sixth-grader recently informed her that "marriage is for white people." The statistics back the kid up (though marriage among whites isn't that rosy either). More than two-thirds of black babies are born out of wedlock. Sociologist Andrew J. Cherlin of Johns Hopkins University says blacks were more likely to be raised by both parents during slavery days than they are today.

There's a lot of Marxist-infused nonsense about how economics are at the root of black America's problems. But this doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Of course poverty makes social pathologies worse, but it's the pathologies that cause poverty in the first place.

Family breakdown in the black community has occurred despite a steady rise in the wages of blacks since World War II, when 80% were born to married parents. Racism alone cannot be blamed anymore for causing all black problems. By every measure, racism, particularly official racism, has declined even as these problems have worsened.

Racism is surely still a problem, but it pales in comparison to family breakdown. Nothing more perpetuates the cycle of moral and financial poverty. If you are raised by two married parents today, black or white, it is unlikely that you will be poor, or poor for long. Blaming slavery and historic white racism for family erosion may be satisfying — often accurate — but it promises few solutions.

Pat Moynihan predicted all of this chaos more than 40 years ago in his report, "The Negro Family: the Case for National Action," which urged the government to help stop black family breakdown before young men raised without fathers sowed chaos in their own community and the nation. Moynihan was greeted with denial and outrage by black and feminist ideologues, who insisted he was trying to impose white middle-class norms on the benign, even "superior," female-headed black family. The PC mob won, and U.S. social policy was pushed in exactly the wrong direction until the welfare reform of the 1990s.

The Congressional Black Caucus and its sundry enablers are the intellectual heirs of Moynihan's critics. Indeed, many of them are the same people. Given the state of black America, their priorities often seem otherworldly: giving felons the vote and pushing for slavery reparations.

Obviously, black America's problems are larger than the black caucus. But the caucus has failed to provide the morally serious leadership — leadership that builds on the historic social conservatism and self-reliance of African Americans — that is sorely needed.

mikemover · #**154** 03-30-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

My favourite phrase "... the soft bigotry of low expectations."

Failing their own
Jonah Goldberg

March 30, 2006

I'M THINKING of a cabal of radical legislators who don't reflect the views of average Americans or even the interests of their own constituents. They use wedge issues, play the race card and push their party to the ideological extreme. They collude with outside activists, many of whom use religion as a Trojan horse for a radical political agenda.

Sound like those perennial paladins of villainy, the congressional GOP? Guess again. This is the Congressional Black Caucus.

The caucus lives in a fantasy in which it is the "conscience of the Congress." Immune to the sort of scrutiny that many other groups receive, it has benefited from the soft bigotry of low expectations for decades.

As the Economist recently noted, gerrymandering and Democratic politics have resulted in a caucus well to the left of black America. Only four of 43 members of the group voted to ban partial-birth abortion in 2003, even though a majority of blacks favored such a ban. Most African Americans favor school choice, but because the caucus is firmly ensconced in the teacher-union racket, it bars the schoolhouse door to black kids who want a better education via vouchers. A majority of blacks oppose outright racial quotas, but don't tell that to the caucus. Or that blacks are heavily opposed to gay marriage.

Why pick on the blacks in Congress? Because they represent black leadership in America, and it has been on their watch that black America has descended into such a mess.

A slew of new research shows how sorry is the plight of American blacks, most acutely men. Black men, particularly those who do not finish high school, have been falling off a cliff for decades. If you include blacks in prison or not seeking work — which conventional unemployment surveys don't — the true jobless rate for black men in their 20s without a high school diploma is 72%. At the height of the economic boom, in 2000, it was still about 65%, according to the New York Times. This is twice the rate for white dropouts and three times that of Latinos. A UC Berkeley researcher found that black dropouts in their late 20s are more likely to be in prison than working.

Statistics on the black family are, if possible, even more depressing. In a moving essay in the Washington Post, Joy Jones lamented how wedlock has become unfashionable in much of black America. A sixth-grader recently informed her that "marriage is for white people." The statistics back the kid up (though marriage among whites isn't that rosy either). More than two-thirds of black babies are born out of wedlock. Sociologist Andrew J. Cherlin of Johns Hopkins University says blacks were more likely to be raised by both parents during slavery days than they are today.

There's a lot of Marxist-infused nonsense about how economics are at the root of black America's problems. But this doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Of course poverty makes social pathologies worse, but it's the pathologies that cause poverty in the first place.

Family breakdown in the black community has occurred despite a steady rise in the wages of blacks since World War II, when 80% were born to married parents. Racism alone cannot be blamed anymore for causing all black problems. By every measure, racism, particularly official racism, has declined even as these problems have worsened.

Racism is surely still a problem, but it pales in comparison to family breakdown. Nothing more perpetuates the cycle of moral and financial poverty. If you are raised by two married parents today, black or white, it is unlikely that you will be poor, or poor for long. Blaming slavery and historic white racism for family erosion may be satisfying — often accurate — but it promises few solutions.

Pat Moynihan predicted all of this chaos more than 40 years ago in his report, "The Negro Family: the Case for National Action," which urged the government to help stop black family breakdown before young men raised without fathers sowed chaos in their own community and the nation. Moynihan was greeted with denial and outrage by black and feminist ideologues, who insisted he was trying to impose white middle-class norms on the benign, even "superior," female-headed black family. The PC mob won, and U.S. social policy was pushed in exactly the wrong direction until the welfare reform of the 1990s.

The Congressional Black Caucus and its sundry enablers are the intellectual heirs of Moynihan's critics. Indeed, many of them are the same people. Given the state of black America, their priorities often seem otherworldly: giving felons the vote and pushing for slavery reparations.

Obviously, black America's problems are larger than the black caucus. But the caucus has failed to provide the morally serious leadership — leadership that builds on the historic social conservatism and self-reliance of African Americans — that is sorely needed.

An excellent post, containing excellent points.

Mike

mikemover · #**155** 03-30-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I agree that the line you left out is used as an excuse too often. Doesn't mean there's not some truth to it...

....I get real tired of the *****y "we want reparations" crap. BUT, manuevering our way out of this impasse will not be easy, and saying "shut up and pull yourself up by your bootstraps" will have limited success, methinks.

There's only still truth to it because people keep it making it so...

I also disagree with your last statement. I think "shut up and help yourself" hasn't been said nearly often enough, when it comes to this issue, AND many others.

Mike

boneheaddoctor · #**156** 03-30-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neanderthal

you're splitting hairs mike. you know what he means.

just to give you (all, not just mike) a general idea of the difficulty of changing a mindset. no matter how quickly we may impose american style democracy in iraq, there will be problems for many years, if not decades, as too many of the people are used to a totalitarian regime and are "uncomfortable" with new found liberties. some adapt quickly, but they are in the minority. think about modern russia. glasnost was when? how is russia today? when did the wall come down? even with west german support the areas of east germany have high unemployment and are still economically behind the rest of germany.

its not just an economic thing, its a mindset. we still suspect the police because we remember when justice was not blind, when they were the tools of an oppressive regime, not the champions of peace. etc etc etc.

dont forget blacks were second class citizens just forty years ago.

And by not giving up on that and moving on you are doing yourself a diservice. Most "hoods" or "gangstas" are judged by how they behave , talk and dress now...not over something that happened before they were born.

I for one do not judge people on the color of their skin...I DO judge them on how they behave as do most people. Don't graduate or attend school you don't learn, don't learn and dress in a socially acceptible manner and you aren't going to work. Much of this is of their own creation. Not the fault of "Whitey" like Louis Fraudikahn like to profess. If I walked around in full Hells Angels gear how much respect do you think the local authorities would give me, even though I am white? Not much is the answer. Gangs are major crime issues for the police...dress and act like you are in a gang you rightfully do draw their suspicion.

mikemover · #**157** 03-30-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2O2

Having your very own opinion can be a real thrill ride for some, thanks for sharing yours.

True.

But what I posted is not merely opinion. What part of what I posted do you believe is not fact?

NO two people are truly "created equally".

Certain core aspects of this difference have nothing to do with race, gender, social status, economic status, upbringing, environment, or anything else... It is simply genetics... and random chance.

The answer lies in recognizing this inherent variation and "inequality", and realizing that each INDIVIDUAL must deal with it, without expecting handouts, compensation, or making excuses.

Mike

mikemover · #**158** 03-30-2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

And by not giving up on that and moving on you are doing yourself a diservice. Most "hoods" or "gangstas" are judged by how they behave , talk and dress now...not over something that happened before they were born.

I for one do not judge people on the color of their skin...I DO judge them on how they behave as do most people. Don't graduate or attend school you don't learn, don't learn and dress in a socially acceptible manner and you aren't going to work. Much of this is of their own creation. Not the fault of "Whitey" like Louis Fraudikahn like to profess. If I walked around in full Hells Angels gear how much respect do you think the local authorities would give me, even though I am white? Not much is the answer. Gangs are major crime issues for the police...dress and act like you are in a gang you rightfully do draw their suspicion.

For once, you have made some excellent, well-considered points.

Also.... "Louis Fraudikahn"... hahaha.... Funny. Can I borrow that?

Mike

boneheaddoctor · #**159** 03-30-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikemover

For once, you have made some excellent, well-considered points.

Also.... "Louis Fraudikahn"... hahaha.... Funny. Can I borrow that?

Mike

you are welcome to it...I donate the term to the public domain.

cmac2012 · #**160** 03-31-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

And by not giving up on that and moving on you are doing yourself a diservice. Most "hoods" or "gangstas" are judged by how they behave , talk and dress now...not over something that happened before they were born.

I for one do not judge people on the color of their skin...I DO judge them on how they behave as do most people. Don't graduate or attend school you don't learn, don't learn and dress in a socially acceptible manner and you aren't going to work. Much of this is of their own creation. Not the fault of "Whitey" like Louis Fraudikahn like to profess. If I walked around in full Hells Angels gear how much respect do you think the local authorities would give me, even though I am white? Not much is the answer. Gangs are major crime issues for the police...dress and act like you are in a gang you rightfully do draw their suspicion.

Do you have any good ideas on why poverty seems to be handed down from one generation to the next in parts of Appalachia? There's no Farrakhan or Jackson telling them it ain't there fault.

The acorn doesn't fall too far from the oak tree. It's the rare person who rises way above his parents. I wish everyone could get up to speed, whatever that might be, but it doesn't happen right away. It's been what, 5 or 6 generations since the slaves were freed? Followed by many decades of severe repression?

I agree that coddling is a bad idea. I wish I had some good ideas on this one.

neanderthal · #**161** 04-01-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boneheaddoctor

And by not giving up on that and moving on you are doing yourself a diservice. Most "hoods" or "gangstas" are judged by how they behave , talk and dress now...not over something that happened before they were born.

I for one do not judge people on the color of their skin...I DO judge them on how they behave as do most people. Don't graduate or attend school you don't learn, don't learn and dress in a socially acceptible manner and you aren't going to work. Much of this is of their own creation. Not the fault of "Whitey" like Louis Fraudikahn like to profess. If I walked around in full Hells Angels gear how much respect do you think the local authorities would give me, even though I am white? Not much is the answer. Gangs are major crime issues for the police...dress and act like you are in a gang you rightfully do draw their suspicion.

i dont disagree on the gangs, thier members, the respect they think they should get.

i DO disagree on the highlighted portion of your missive. a portion to which you have conected everything else in your statement even though that may not be the case.

fact is, a substandard education is not better than no education. i went through "bantu education" and at independence my parents transferred me to a school that had formely been a whites only school. to say i was behind would be a understatement.

a farce of an education does no one any good. and thats essentially what you get in urban/ghetto schools. given that, its easy to see why one would dropout, especially in light of the crime rates and other socio economic problems in those areas.

you dont have to be dressed gangsta to be profiled. the closest articles i have to gangsta are my rugby jerseys and football jerseys and they arent even close to gangsta. ive never been stopped while wearing them, but i have been followed/ tailed by police and been pulled over for the most irrelevant things. driving while black is a reality. something that you, sadly, dont realise.

boneheaddoctor · #**162** 04-01-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Do you have any good ideas on why poverty seems to be handed down from one generation to the next in parts of Appalachia? There's no Farrakhan or Jackson telling them it ain't there fault.

The acorn doesn't fall too far from the oak tree. It's the rare person who rises way above his parents. I wish everyone could get up to speed, whatever that might be, but it doesn't happen right away. It's been what, 5 or 6 generations since the slaves were freed? Followed by many decades of severe repression?

I agree that coddling is a bad idea. I wish I had some good ideas on this one.

The Blacks not finding work in Washington, DC is their own fault.....I am familiar with this area and its opportunity. Heck the Latinos manage to find plenty of work around here.

Now for Appalachia, I am fammiliar with its northern areas intimately. And that is a whole different reality than Washington, DC. Its very rural and opportunity is limited and the schools tend to be poor. WV for its faults has never had institutionalized welfare. So many people there do what it takes to survive. Opportunity there as well as jobs are scarce in many places. But the people don't expect to sit around and collect money and squeeze out babies at taxpayer expense. I imagine that mindset is epidemic in California. It certainly is in parts of DC.

Yeah there is a lot of poverty there in WV, but for a whole different reason.

boneheaddoctor · #**163** 04-01-2006, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neanderthal

i dont disagree on the gangs, thier members, the respect they think they should get.

i DO disagree on the highlighted portion of your missive. a portion to which you have conected everything else in your statement even though that may not be the case.

fact is, a substandard education is not better than no education. i went through "bantu education" and at independence my parents transferred me to a school that had formely been a whites only school. to say i was behind would be a understatement.

a farce of an education does no one any good. and thats essentially what you get in urban/ghetto schools. given that, its easy to see why one would dropout, especially in light of the crime rates and other socio economic problems in those areas.

you dont have to be dressed gangsta to be profiled. the closest articles i have to gangsta are my rugby jerseys and football jerseys and they arent even close to gangsta. ive never been stopped while wearing them, but i have been followed/ tailed by police and been pulled over for the most irrelevant things. driving while black is a reality. something that you, sadly, dont realise.

I was reffering to the epidemic of high school truency and high school drop outs who think its cool to hang out and cause trouble and not stay in school and make the most of the oportunity. These same people whine about not finding a $60k a year job....employers want people who can see things through....if you can't finish a free education how can you see other things through. Trying to blame others for that is a cop out. You are responsible for the choices YOU make....dropping out or skipping class is a choice. And a high school diploma even at a bad school is far better than none at all. Most of the "Bad" schools are made that way by the same bums who refuse to get the education taxpayers are paying for them to get, by disrupting class, skipping class and causing trouble. Like I said, school is what you make it...in the singular and in the plural.

I'm not arguing some schools aren't better than others, becasue its true, but its not resouces...its the mindset of the student body...DC has the highest per studdent spending in the country and amoung the worst test scores. Because kids refuse to go to school or act civilized when they are there.

If I was an employer a diploma would be the first requirement. Even for flipping burgers. Above all it shows you are willing to do what is needed and see things through.

Gangsta is not just dress its how you talk and how you carry yourself...ever hear of Body language? It plays a huge part in drawing a cops attention.

Driving while black is a cop-out... and an excuse...drive in certain neighborhoods at 3 am when normal people either sleep or work is going to draw suspicion....drive a $30K car in the projects also raises flags, White , Latino or Black.

And young white kids get singled out all the time for harassment for driving sporty cars....trust me there I have been through that myself for years. I still draw attention if I drive my honda and its dark enough for them to not see there is an obviously middle aged driver in it.