Inline V6 better than a V6? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jim H · #31 04-20-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172

...There's a sucker born every minute. -- P. T. Barnum

Actually, P.T Barnum did not say this...

http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

A264172 · #32 04-20-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

The quote below is taken directly from the 1989 THE 300 CLASS Benz sale brochure (I have the original sales brochure my 300TE).

Page 17, "Merceds-Benz 300 Class"

"The cylinder block (of the W124 engines) is of an in-line configuration. Unlike a V6, this design is inherently balanced for secondary forces. Running smoothness is optimized. The ribbed, remarkably rigid block resists torsional twisting to maximize long-term duarability."

I guess that the ad writer had no way of knowing that, just a few short years down the road, Benz was going to employ a V6 design.

Can't falt his impressions though... I would vote for the M103 but wouldn't want to brag. ;-)

Jim H,
PT Barnum... who gets the credit then

BENZ-LGB · #33 04-20-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172

Can't falt his impressions though... I would vote for the M103 but wouldn't want to brag. ;-)

Jim H,
PT Barnum... who gets the credit then

Since I own a 300TE, with the I6 and a E320 with the V6, I guess that I'd have to split my vote.

Follow the link, it explains about the quote. Quite interesting. Thanks for sharing Jim H.

cmac2012 · #34 04-21-2006, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172

I know a guy who loves his. What was it that displeased you? (I will be fishing with him this weekend and need some amo.)

Also, I would like to cast a vote for the Toyota 22R/RE... series as: durable. Though they didn't wield much power, even in a Celica.

P.S. cmac, I like your new sig quotes, particularly the middle one:

Oh, thanks on the quotes. I forget which guy I got the middle one from. He has a radio show either on NPR, PRI, or the more fringe network that KPFA, here in B-town, sorta started: the Pacifica News Service.

The Miata's engine sounded kinda tinny. Hard to explain. The tranny (5 spd.) felt cheap -- like it didn't shift crisply enough. And there was a funny harmonic resonance in the body at a certain RPM that was annoying.

Maybe this one was clapped out, I dunno, but it only had around 70 K on it.

cmac2012 · #35 04-21-2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

Actually, P.T Barnum did not say this...

http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

Yes, that is an interesting link. Please forgive me, but I've stolen it and incorporated it into my sig. Oh, I'm devious, all right.

I was relieved upon reading it to see that the mis-attribution is widespread and not just my mistake. It probably gained currency because of the way carnivals do tend to make a buck off the gullibility of the public.

I like the last part of the story, that Barnum could not be guilty of slander for saying the statue was a fake because it was, indeed, a fake.

cmac2012 · #36 04-21-2006, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hirnbeiss

An inline 6 is more "naturally" balanced, and you will probably never feel a smoother engine than your 104.

The V's have addressed this with counterbalancers, and aren't too shaky these days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbain5280

If the V6 is a 60 degree or 30 degree engine then there are no odd harmonics. Only when the V6 is a 90 degree engine is there a balance problem fixed by offset crank journals and/or balance shafts.

I've heard over the years that 6 cylinders don't work as well in the V configuration as do 8, that there is an inherent imbalance in a V6.

I'm not sure if I get why that is. You would still have a firing at every 120 deg of rotation and if that alternated side to side, it seems like it would be smooth enough.

Jim H · #37 04-21-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I was relieved upon reading it to see that the mis-attribution is widespread and not just my mistake. It probably gained currency because of the way carnivals do tend to make a buck off the gullibility of the public.

I, too, was mislead for a lot of years. Very cool of you to put it in your sig.

Quote:

...I like the last part of the story, that Barnum could not be guilty of slander for saying the statue was a fake because it was, indeed, a fake.

The Law is fascinating in all of its complexity, isn't it.

Jim H · #38 04-21-2006, 08:56 AM

Interesting links on engine balance.

http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/smooth3.htm

Edit:
http://www.saabcentral.com/~munki/technical/engine/tech_specs/balance_shafts.htm

More Edit:
Oh, for the heck of it, one more.

http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/GArticles/BALANCE.Lyc

BENZ-LGB · #39 04-21-2006, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim H

I, too, was mislead for a lot of years. Very cool of you to put it in your sig.

The Law is fascinating in all of its complexity, isn't it.

The law is also maddening in its ambiguities.

Many years ago, back in the days of sailing ships, a first mate made the following entry on the ship's log:

"The captain is not drunk today."

Upon returning to London the Captain sued the 1st mate for libel.

Result?

The Captain won.

Although the entry was technically accurate (the captain was not drunk on the particular date of the entry or any other day of the voyage for that matter) it nevertheless raised the false implication that the Captain was drunk during the other days of the trip.

So, be careful with what you write (libel) or say (slander).

cmac2012 · #40 04-21-2006, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

So, be careful with what you write (libel) or say (slander).

Funny you should say that...

en garde..

ROGER E. · #41 04-26-2006, 12:09 AM

<< If the V6 is a 60 degree or 30 degree engine then there are no odd harmonics. Only when the V6 is a 90 degree engine is there a balance problem fixed by offset crank journals and/or balance shafts.>>

At last, some facts among all the dross.

The Mercedes M112 V-6 is a 90 deg engine so that it could be built on the same line as the V-8s. That's the one and only reason. And so, it has one balance shaft, chain driven, which cancels out the built-in shakes. My C320 uses the 3.2L version and it does not vibrate at any rpm.

My Porsche 944 has a 2.5L 4-cylinder and has two balance shafts bolted to the outside of the aluminum block, both driven by one toothed belt. It does not vibrate but would shake like a wet dog without the balance shafts.

Balance shafts were first used on the English Lanchester about 1912.

Hirnbeiss · #42 04-26-2006, 06:38 AM

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/at_010424.htm

Short of the V12, that is. Your M112, while good, is still not smoother than the M104. Same for my M113.

I still wonder if it's actually a savings to commonize like they did. An inline has only one cylinder head, camshaft, etc., so that its variable cost should be lower than the vee's. When you amortize the fixed costs (and it's not a billion dollars, like in the GM article) over the millions of engines you sell, it doesn't come out to that much.

Plus,, when you factor in the customers who run to BMW because they still sell straight sixes, did you really gain anything?

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/5/530iSedan/techdata.htm

BobsterMan · #43 04-26-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koop

I love an inline 6. Before we got the infinity (V6) I pointed out to the wife that we had 23 cylinders (three 6's and the 5cyl MB), all of them in a row. She was strangly unimpressed

Good thing that, bud, else there would be a couple dozen guys here crawl through broken glass to steal her from ya

Honus · #44 04-26-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koop

Inline engines we have known and loved.

Dodge 225 "slant six"

BMW 3.0 (M30?)

Chevy "stovebolt" 6 which spawned the toyota and Jeep

Toyota 2F

Jeep 4.0

and of course MB

any others? I think Ford had a good truck engine, but have never had one.

Here's an I-6 that is well loved, but for different reasons than the ones you've listed:

Jaguar 3.8 or 4.2 litre from the 50s and 60s.

Edit: My personal favorite is the 65 HP I-6 in my 1979 International Harvester 686 farm tractor. It is sweet. Really drives my 10' mower.