It's not the perceived "low-endness" of mass transit that bothers me... I just hate mass transit, PERIOD. Stopping and starting... people in, people out.... You're at the mercy of THEIR schedule.... SO annoying.

I LIKE my cars. I like driving. I like listening to music or talk radio when I drive. I like the solitude and "me" time that I get when driving alone. I do not intend to give it up for ANY reason. For many people, it's SO much more than mere transportation. It's not just about getting from A to B.

Mike

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1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Our city is going ahead with a large-scale light rail project. It actually seems well designed!

We're facing the same problems as I'd wager most large US cities are - massive, seemlingly uncontrolled suburban - or exurban to follow current word trends - sprawl. Tons of new cookie-cutter homes are being thrown up, framed by chainsaws, in farmland that used to be outside the city. All these new homes and only old, single-lane roads to support all that new traffic. Yes, many people who buy homes here also tend to drive minivans/SUVs. I swear it must be genetic.

Anyway, there's going to be major rail lines to support these sprawling new communities. From the 'burbs to downtown in 30 mins. Actually a good idea for once.

If I was facing a 45 min+ commute, with stressful traffic situations vs. a 30 min ride, relaxing and listening to my iPod, it's no contest. Throw in the price of parking downtown and gas and it's a no-brainer. Especially in winter - commutes are insane. A regular 30min commute easily becomes 1 hr, with snow and ice everywhere. This is where the rail has the huge advantage.

Now we'll see if people actually use it...

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Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Do you know how expensive it is to live in the cities these days? And if demand increases the price will only go up...I don't think people will be moving back in droves anytime soon. The exodus has been going on for fifty years now and it will probably not be reversed quickly.

Telecommuting will increase dramatically where it's possible. I think more light rail will be built. It's expensive, but no more expensive than building roads in most cases. Property around the train stations will be more valuable than property further away; this is already the case in some places in the north east.

It's true that our mass transit system used to really be something. I know that in Rhode Island, you could go practically anywhere in the state by trolley in the '30's. It's a real shame all that infrastructure was ripped apart.

The ritual of the daily commute will continue for many years to come for many people. If oil prices really do rise astronomically, new technology will catch up in a hurry.

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Ralph

1985 300D Turbo, CA model
248,650 miles and counting...

Even if cars evolve into plastic eggs with electric motors in them, they will still be private and customizable. Can't do either of those with mass transit.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Actually, THOUSANDS of people have been moving back to downtown/midtown Atlanta in recent years... The number of new/newly renovated lofts/apartments/condos/houses that are springing up in the downtown area is astounding. The city is really coming back to life. I'm sure that this phenomenon is not exclusive to Atlanta.

Mike

__________________
_____
1979 300 SD
350,000 miles
_____
1982 300D-gone---sold to a buddy
_____
1985 300TD
270,000 miles
_____
1994 E320
not my favorite, but the wife wanted it

www.myspace.com/mikemover
www.myspace.com/openskystudio
www.myspace.com/speedxband
www.myspace.com/openskyseparators
www.myspace.com/doubledrivemusic

Someone has to pay for all of those new gas stations in China and India. Guess who gets to pay for all of that? At least the company that is sticking it to you has plenty of lubrication.

You don't need to save for retirement; keep eating high-fructose corn syrup and you won't live to retirement age anyway.

I heard on the radio recently that there was a census study that showed all but four (I think) major cities were losing people. NPR is my alarm so I was a little groggy, but I think that's what it said. I'm not sure how many cities were studied.

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Ralph

1985 300D Turbo, CA model
248,650 miles and counting...

I have lived in many international cities and used their transit systems, good and bad. Japan's and Europe's Rail Systems, were reborn by the US Military, after WWII, because of the necessity to rebuild it to keep the populations from starving and to restore industry and production--jobs. We have the experiance and ability to do that here in the USA. Why don't we? Our infrastructure is worn out and outdated.

I have owned and driven many fine and expensive automobiles. My situation these days don't require me to commute or take my children to school or the activities families do with life in a suburban lifestyle. The price of fuel will not affect my driving significantly. I will go where and when I need to go. I feel for the families who are stretched to the limits and more.

I posted a comment about the falling prices of S600's and the price of fuel. It was a comment about the impact of fuel prices, prevailing over the desirability of a beautiful V12 Benz, at even 10% of it's original purchase price. Rolls-Royce, is worse, but BMW's purchase of the company, may have an effect on the older cars, and their image it portrays in today's dilemma.

Well...What transportation systems would we all use? What cars do we want to drive? Do we want Domestics, instead of Imports? How long will it be to when we go back to 1 car per family, instead of a car for every driver? What are the alternatives for us? Are we still our own Master of our Freedoms? Are we still Americans, in the Classical Sense or International Consumers, with the Globalization of our American Corporations?

We need new ideas and thinking for our future...It starts here! Post them here if you wish. Fire Away! We all need to know.

It is possible to produce more energy, but not economically. No company will produce energy products that requires more units of energy to make than is created as the product?

CO2 is not used to pressurize oil wells. That is a side effect. It is a miscible displacement process that reduces the attraction of the oil to the rock, thereby reducing the residual oil saturation. Typically an oil reservoir will produce only 10-15% of the actual oil in place. that number can go to a max of about 50% if you have an extremely effective water drive or a waterflood. A successful CO2 program can add another 10-15% over the original recovery.

CO2 is not cheap AND you have to be near a pipeline AND you have to have the right type of rock AND the economics of the project must be favorable. A lot of CO2 projects have failed over the years.

[/QUOTE]
What's left of the AMERICAN farmers would love the opportunity to grow
renewable energy .
[/QUOTE]

You mean the ones that are taking federal subsidies to NOT grow crops?

[/QUOTE]
The oil consortium who seeks to maintain status quo,The IDIOTS at FORD and G.M. who refuse to give us SAFE fuel efficient vehicles{the jackasses didn't learn from V.W. in the '60s nor the Japanese EVER SINCE.}
[/QUOTE]

Its called marketing. You cannot sell what your customers do not want. This is why hybrids will fail. You can get cars (non-hybrid) that cost less and get as good mileage and you don't have to replace batteries every so often and trying to find a way to dispose of them.....

Its a chicken and egg situation, without customers the cars won't be made and without the cars the customers won't come.

Same issue with natural gas/propane vehicles. No supply of fuel so no desire for the cars. We need the government to step in and start the process. Or some really rich visonary.

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MB-less

I thought hybrid vehicles were selling well these days. Is that not the case?

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Ralph

1985 300D Turbo, CA model
248,650 miles and counting...

whunter,
Yes, this a good thread; see what other's thoughts are, etc. I'd repeat what a # have said. Minimizing automobile useage by car pooling, freeing congested downtown areas of larger citie's through shuttle busses, overhead cable suspended "pods" of the type used to move 30 to 50 skiiers at a time. Upgrading railroad tracks (billions and billions of bucks, I know) to allow the use of high-speed passenger trains for long-distance travel (trains running close to 200mph on straight grades; as super-conducting magnets become more efficient, going beyond the prototype MagLev trains that use this technology (no contact between train and I-beam style rail) allowing trains much, much higher speed for longer and even shorter communter style distances). The automobile isn't disappearing anytime soon, but mass-transportation can take so much stress off the transportation system as to be crucial. The use of steel rail/wire in highways, without direct connection to the car, but the car tracks the rail/wire and computers control the cars speed, optimizing traffic flow on high-volume highways, even on sparse sections of Interstate; producing fewer accidents, less fuel used from eliminating excessive stop and go situations. The increased building of nuclear reactors to charge electric cars, also to use nuclear reactor heat to melt the oil shale and tar sands to produce useable dino fuel so as to be cost-efficient. As to cars, themselves: smaller, lighter, stronger, more fuel efficient. The greater use of compressed natural gas powered and fuel cell cars. I think it's going to be a process that moves in noticeable step changes, but I think the large SUV & Pick-Up truck market has seen it's hey-day and won't return to levels seen in the past ten or so years. But, the smaller, lighter replacement vehicles that still run on dino will have engines that produce much more power so that the ratio of horsepower to vehicle weight will be increased.

[QUOTE=raymr]I suspect we will be learning lots of lessons from Europe.

and therein lies the problem. . . if you don't study history you are doomed to make the same mistakes...

It's fine if it happens to be (1) close to where you live and (2) close to where you work. The Metro in Washington, DC does not fit that description for very many people as far as I know. I guess well-designed would have to describe not only the system's hardware, but also its overall layout. New York's in great. It goes all over town.

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

My cousin and her husband just bought a house in the suburbs. They have a f45 minute commute each way every day. With two small children involved in school activities, they have to make two or three trips a day sometimes. When they moved they had no idea fual was going to go so high. Her husband drives a late model Tahoe. He gets 12mpg. I guess she balances it out by driving a Civic. When they lived in town, everything was a ten minute drive away, and now they realize that not only do they spend hundreds on fuel a month but they spend the most precious thing of all: time.

People forget that Europeans have wrung huge amounts of power from those tiny engines. Alfa-Romeo made a four door sedan in the '60s with the twin cam four banger that would eat most of todays rice burners. Not only that, with all the congestion on the roads today, why bother having a car with a huge v8? To race from light to light? Stop then go, stop then go. The only time you can enjoy driving nowadays is early Sunday morning, when all the drunks from the night before are still asleep and the only fewpeople on the road are going to church. I used to like going out late at night and driving , but with all the drunks it's just not worth the risk.

This summer I think way may see temp fuel shortages. I try to keep the tank almost always above half and tell my wife to do the same. People forget how hard it was to get fuel thirty years ago.

I think there is a short term splurge due mainly to the gasoline spikes. I think in the long run our American way of life (huge consumption and comfort) will rule the day, unless the price of gasoline gets out of hand for a SUSTAINED period (years). We won't change until our backs are against the wall and we learn how to invent a politician with balls that thinks that an energy policy is more important than getting reelected....

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MB-less