Lots of talks about how illegal workers are, etc. lately... more-so than usual from where I'm sitting.

So I have a question since I know we have a lot of people here that believe we should get rid of them.

How do you same people feel about buying things made in China? Shirts, Radio, whatever...

To a degree, but not so much that I won't buy them. Buying things made in China isn't 'great' for our economy, but one major difference is that it is legal.

Smuggling people over to pick avocados is not, and makes a big impact on our economy. Sure if we eliminated all the 'guest' freeloa-I mean, workers, fruit prices and landscaping fees and all the other jobs that they do would go up- but you'd be paying an American, and helping the economy.

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And if we bought a shirt stiched by a 'Merikan worker -- wouldn't that help our economy by your way of thinking too?

Legal? Perhaps -- but does that make it right?

Ok, but doesn't the cheap China stuff take jobs away from 'Merikans too? I mean after all, if we don't let the Mexicans in to pick our oranges those jobs can go to 'Merikans, No? -- Granted we'll pay triple for oranges.

So. By that same mentality... why do we allow a shirt made in China for $.50 in the country when it could be made by 'Merikans too? And again, granted. The shirt may now cost $5.00 to make... but gosh-darnit... a good 'ole 'Merikan made it.

So what is the difference?

Interesting point....actually good point.

Whenever I have the choice I will reject a Chinese-made good and buy the American-made equivalent.

But it is getting harder and harder to make the choice.

There is, however, a big difference between the kind of corporate greed that brings us $100.00 TVasets made by Chinese slave labor at a cost of $10.00 and the kind of massive illegal immigration invasion that we are witnessing.

Illegal immigration beyond the very simplistic notion of "taking-away" American jobs.

Illegal immigration is all about with higher crime rates; it has to do with additional medical expenses, additional educational expenses, additional law enforcement expenses.

Illegal immigration has to do with the mindset of a people whose first act in our country is to commit a crime.

Illegal immigration has to do with foreign gvernments dumping their problems in our backyard.

Illegal immigration has to do with creating a permanent poor and uneducated (and often criminal and in bad health) underclass.

Illegal immigration has to do with the US having the right to protect its borders and determine who has the right to come and stay and who does not.

Illegal immigration has to do with your right, and my right and the right of every legal American to pick and choose who gets to live here.

Illegal immigration has to do with protecting the integrity of our culture (warts and all -- a society that allows its culture to be subverted will not endure long).

Illegal immigration has to do with businesses who don't like to play fair. Most businesses pay a higher "premium" to employ legal citizens. Businesses who regularly employ illegal aliens gain an unfair competitive advantage over those businesses that play by the rules.

And, interestingly enough, illegal immigration (or stopping it) has everything to do with protecting the rights of poor minorities who are here legally. As long as there is a constant influx of cheap labor from Mexico and elsewhere, poor minorities, with little or no education, will not have a chance to move up the ladder.

Why pay a legal Guatemalan $10.00/hour (plus benefits) when you can pay $5.00 (and no benefits) to an illegal one. As it is often the case, it is the people at the bottom of the ladder who get f***ed royally -- and they have the least ability to withstand the blow.

I hope this answered your question -- or at least caused you to examine your beliefs.

I answered your question assuming that it was asked in good faith and with the intent of stimulating reasoned debate.

Your response will let me know whether I was right or wrong in my assumptions. I hope I was not wrong.

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The percentage of ILLEGAL workers in agriculture is small, the price effect of doing away with ILLEGAL workers would be tiny. I think you are confused thinking people are advocating kicking out ALL Mexicans.

And comparing to buying Chinese products is not apples to apples (no pun intended). Its called free trade and EVERY time in the past when somebody tried to invoke protectionist laws, the consumer gets hurt. Competition is what makes products better. And with which countries do you draw the line? Some would argue we should not allow German cars in, where would we be then?

That said, it is an unfortunate fact of life that when you deal with a country (China, India etc) whose government is on board for dumping cheap products to export, its not really free trade. Their government is taking advantage of their own peoples low standard of living with regards to wages.

There is no good solution to the trade issue, but it is not at all related to your immigration question.

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I can’t even come up with the words to describe how far off you are with this statement.

Obviously, you have never been to the agricultural regions of this country.

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Maybe to the ag industry it is a large thing. How about to the economy as a whole? In either case, the principle is the same isn't it? Where are you going to draw the line between what is illegal and what is not? Should looting in say New Orleans be legal since many are doing it?

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The two industries here in the US that employ the most illegal immigrants are agricultural and construction. It’s a damn good thing these two aren’t important to our economy.

I’m not trying to make a stand for something illegal. I’m not making any comments to the legality of it at all. I’m simply stating that many folks are sitting around with the simple, narrow minded attitude of: “It’s illegal!! Send them all back to Mexico and close the border tight. We’ll all be just fine here in the good old USA without them. It wont have and impact on our economy and if it did, we’d all be better off anyway because we‘ll be making it up somewhere else. I’ll be happy to pay for any increase in any costs it may induce. I can handle it.” That’s why I stated that I’d love to see a study done on it. I think most people don’t have a clue of the economic impact. I’m looking at the big picture here. Not the simple “It’s illegal, send them home.” issue. It’s too late for that. And a much bigger issue than that as well. It's not a simple figuring out of where to draw a line.

And - Everyone seems to think it’s all the Mexicans fault for coming over here. No body here seems to want to look at why it is they are coming. If you want to curve the influx. Look at why they are coming, and do something about that. Not the how. You can only build so high and tight of a wall. And if they still have a reason to, they’ll climb it when you’re done.

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I am in Texas. You obviously are unaware of how extensive our agriculture industry is and how far (not) the Mexicans have moved.

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MB-less

True -- I hear the same thing... but we're talking unskilled (or semi-unskilled) work. Sticking a nose on a teddy bear or stiching a pair of panies.

I don't think anyone should be allowed to be here illegally but in my opinion this racial bigotry has gotten way out of hand.
It's happened all through history with the Blacks, Jews, Germans, Irish,.....you name it.

We verbally attack the people least able to defend themselves. Then we make laws to oppress them and take away their rights. And the next thing you know were denying them the liberty and freedom this great nation founded to give them.

Does anybody recall what is written on the tablets on the Statue of Liberty?

Danny

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How is it racial? The mexicans have the largest percentage of illegal immigrants. More than 50% of illegals are mexican. Even their Prez knows that and salutes them. Hell, even those here legally support them. How does that work again? You support a thief and you are just as guilty when he robs someplace.

Is anyone denying them anything that they got LEGALLY?

Times change. Now you have to do it legally. If not, you get what you get. I have as much sympathy for them getting shot, stabbed, raped, hung by the KKK or whatever as I do for a thief who gets shot trying to break into my house or anyone's house.

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aklim,

so you're saying that you only care what is legal, not what is right. correct?

What has that got to do with this? Right and wrong are based off a person's values. You can argue for or against the morality of abortion and be right both counts. You cannot argue that it is against the law to blow up a guy's house. I have to accept that it is illegal to go 55 in a 35. I don't have to accept that it is immoral to have an abortion. Based on current laws, it is illegal to run across the border and work. Is that in dispute? The chinese are making products cheaper than we are. Either we move off to other directions where they cannot follow or we get buried.

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99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
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11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow