Israel kills a couple Palestinian kids "by accident" -- Palestinians kidnap one person (not dead) --

And this is what Israel does:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-060627mideast,1,4227928.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Yet we went to Kuwait when Iraq did what they did.

I would appreciate if a few of the Israel supporters here could explain that to me. Honestly, I think it would be like you burning me house down if I stole your newspaper of the lawn.

TIA!

Duh! The Iraqi's don't have a bunch of Sunnis living in America influencing politics and donating money to candidates.

Any other questions?

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or maybe this. Palestinians are launching rocket attacks from the Gaza coastline. Israel shells coastline. One shell gets away and kills civilians.

Stop here, now why are Palestinians launching attacks from so close to civilian areas? Sorry, but it's Hamas who choose the location of the fight.

In response to civilian deaths, terrorist tunnel into Israel, KILL TWO soldiers, and kidnap a third. They also claim to have kidnapped two others, one soldier and one civilian.

Terrorist demand that 500 prisoners be released or they will kill the kidnapped soldier. Israel says piss off and invades to retrieve their soldier.

What would you have Israel do? Negotiate? Release 500 prisoners? Write one of their own off?

"As the Roman, in days of old, held himself free from indignity, when he could say, Civis Romanus sum, so also a British subject, in whatever land he may be, shall feel confident that the watchful eye and the strong arm of England will protect him from injustice and wrong."

[QUOTE=GottaDiesel]Israel kills a couple Palestinian kids "by accident" -- Palestinians kidnap one person (not dead) --

And this is what Israel does:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-060627mideast,1,4227928.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Yet we went to Kuwait when Iraq did what they did.

I thought it was because of the oil.

We went to spread democracy and good cheer. Everybody knows that. Now stop being so cynical.

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Werd

You cannot let terrorists have any victory. Period. These scumbags use their own civilian areas as launching points for rockets, and expect to not be shelled because they hide among civilians. Thats bull****, and I really don't feel bad for the "civilians" that were accidentally killed. They shouldn't harbor terrorists in their towns. IMO, if "civilians" are allowing terrorists to operate in their neighborhoods, they are no better than the terrorists who perpetrate these acts. All these fanatics speak of honor and fighting for Allah, yet they use their own people to shield them from those they attack. If they want to be honorable, quit being cowards and shooting rockets at civilians and sleeping troops, and come out and fight the Israeli army face to face. Oh wait, the few times they did this (Six Day and Yom Kippur War) they were soundly defeated despite having vastly superior numbers of soldiers and equipment. I am completely tired of seeing terrorists kill civilians and kidnap and dismember POW's, while we worry about "Civilian Casualties" I suppose we need to be better than our enemies, but the Israeli response is completely warranted IMO. Where's General Sherman when we need him?

"My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. " . . . William T. Sherman

"War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it" Sherman to the leadership of Atlanta, prior to Burning the City.

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X2

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Terrorism is a tactic. The Palestinians have used it for decades because as you point out, they are hopelessly overmatched in a 'fair' fight. At the same time they are unwilling to stop fighting, because they believe their situation is unfair in and of itself.

Part of the goal of these Palestinian fighters is to create civillian casualties. In PR terms it has worked for them! Look at the attitude people around the world have toward Israel. A lot of this stems from the way Israel has responded to previous attacks on their own civilians. What you see as terrorism, many people (Europeans and Arabs especially) see as the inevitable result of a marginalized population growing up in a hopeless environment. Part of the reason people are willing to blow themselves up is because they see no hope in their future.

As for civilians letting terrorists operate in their neighborhoods, you, too might be persuaded to let that happen if someone was waving a Kalishnikov in your face.

I think the Israeli/Palestinian situation is extremely complex. There are no easy solutions and there's plenty of blood on all hands involved.

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I agree it is a complex situation. Every time I see footage from this area, it seems like everyone has some sort of Kalashnikov. Poles and Jews during the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943 had their city occupied by arguably one of the biggest groups of "terrorists" ever..the Gestapo, SS, and associated units. Did their fear of retribution by the Nazis (who possessed tanks, planes, artillery, and divisions of trained troops) stop them from trying to get these people out of their neighborhoods? No! Yet a small group (when compared to the overall population) of men with Kalashnikovs and RPG's can strike fear into a heavily populated area where the proliferation of weapons among the general population is already large? I think if it was in my neighborhood, I would fear the Israeli attack helicopters reigning fire in brimstone on my neighborhood because we allow terrorist to find safe haven more so than the terrorists themselves.

...at any rate..

Terrorism is terrorism. The intentional destruction of civilian targets to further some sort of agenda is completely uncalled for. How does blowing up busloads of children further anything? Agreed, hands are bloody on both sides, but Israel has been fighting these types since 1948. The Jews just didn't come back from Europe and take the place: when the British withdrew from their mandate of Palestine, the UN split the area into Arab and Jewish states. Then the Israelis fought wars defending the land the an international governing body had given them, and won! When the allies beat the Germans in 1945, they didn't go on blowing up busloads of children for the next sixty years...its called defeat. The Arabs have had several of them at the hands of a smaller force, even when they attacked from all sides. Both sides need to stop the violence, because retaliation by the other is inevitable, and seen as warranted by the members of each side. Until this happes, it'll be another 58 years of nonstop violence, mostly against those who have nothing to do with it.

Is it a coincidence that of the 22 current conflicts in the world, twenty of them pit Muslims against someone else?

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I would agree with most of that. I certainly support the continued existence of Israel! I think they've been genuine about their peace efforts and given the things that happen to their civilians, a certain retaliation is inevitable and necessary. It appears they've tried to be responsible about it, as far as I can tell. I can see the Palestinian point of view as well, though. I think a group like Hamas is different from a group like Al Qaida, even though they employ similar tactics that involve civilians.

It seems like the Palestinians haven't really been united enough to have someone who can speak for all of them, but that might be changing. I wonder if this agreement between Hamas and Fatah, where Hamas supposedly recognizes Israel's right to exist, has something to do with this kidnapping. The kidnappers surely knew what the result of kidnapping an Israeli soldier would be. I wonder if their goal is to make it too humiliating for Hamas to recognize Israel? Then again Hamas initially endorsed the kidnapping.

I didn't know that about the conflicts. It's interesting. I wonder what all those 20 conflicts are? How many of them are really religious at their roots? I also wonder what the other 2 are. Columbia and FARC? Us and S. Korea v. N. Korea? Technically the war never ended.

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Ralph

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A good point. I concur, to a degree...

But if you already KNEW (from experience) that I would over-react in such a way, then perhaps you would be wise to NOT provoke me by stealing my newspaper in the first place. Just a thought....

Mike

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Good point. Don't taunt the bully.

I don't know what to say at this point. I just think the whole thing is stupid and wish we (US) would just keep the hell away from the region and concentrate on educating and enriching our OWN people. That is really the only reason I get so p'ed off about it. Oh well.

You have two neighboring families, one is civil, polite, law abiding but not warm. Your other neighbor is a dysfunctional family that can't even keep its own house in repair and worse, throws rocks through your windows.

Bot

I give up, which is which? I assume the Jews are the ones with the rocks (weapons) and the Palestinians are the ones that are law abiding -- they don't destroys homes and steal land...

Just to clear it up.