Why is giving important?
 

Why? Why is giving part of every financial plan? Thoughts?

Because we never know when we'll need.

You didn't have a good time in that hotel escaping the heat did you? It's not in my plan, I'm so poor I can't afford to pay attention. Seriously, Kuan, I don't give money but I'll donate my time....

Well why donate your time? What good does it do for you?

I had a good time, seriously. :)

can i give you a swift kick in the arse? lol just kidding

Glad you had a good time, I don't have alot of money and want to give something back to the "ethers" so to speak and I spent a good deal of my weekend time working with sick children who have AIDS and other life threatnening illnesses(sp). It made me a better person, giving of myself vs. money, anyone can give money but not everyone can work with children who are dying. As a result I am thankful for every new day, every breath I take and glad for those around me whom I love even more.....those children taught me alot.

Uhh....taxes ?

You can debate the usefulness of "giving" all you want, but when it comes to financial planning, I think the only purpose to planned giving is for tax advatages (writeoffs?) and goodwill that can be "bought" from the people you are giving to... The only example I can think of is when someone gives a large sum to a church, that person stands a good chance of being considered a "good person" and more highly respected in that circle, perhaps in their older years the pastor will visit them more, or they will be asked to serve on the church board...
Obviously, Good will isnt assured.

-John

No their is more to giving then a tax right off. Read any good book on success and giving is mentioned. It is the responsiblilty of any successful person to give back.

Besides it doesn't have to be money, helping troubled kids, cleaning up beach's. I did a beach clean up a couple of years ago and had a blast.

Its good karma to give, once you have enough for yourself and your loved ones. People in the US are among the most generous in the world, making possible lots of research, medical work, cultural venues, and preservation that would otherwise not be done. For the really big philanthropists, its a way to get your name on a cornerstone and leave a legacy behind.

Hmm
 

I am a college student, but work my a$$ off in the summer to accrue cash, as well as during school..I'd like to be successful when I get out of college, and this is where some giving comes into play:

When you help someone out, usually they remember you. At least I always do..

For me giving either money or time, on top of being just plain nice, is a GREAT way to forge bonds with people you may not have been so close to, and IMO the more people you help now, the more people who may possibly be able to return the favor in the future if you need help yourself.

Giving sends a message that you care enough about the individual/cause to volunteer something valuable...and I've found a lot of times that later these seem people who were in need can come to you in your time of need...

As mom said "One hand always washes the other"

The cynics say
 

"Charity isn't something you give, it is something you deduct"
~~~

.

Why is giving important?
 

Because someone needs to give Kim Jong Il a nuclear firecracker up his a$$

"When you care enough to give the very best"

So, two days and I don't think I've figured it out yet. Why should I give away money if I want to become rich? In fact, why should I give away anything that's mine? After all, it really seems to be the survival of the fittest out there as some may like to point out time and time again. So what if it makes me feel good? So what if there are a bunch of cancer stricken kids out there? I know, and I work just as hard and appreciate life just as much as if there weren't any kids who were down on their luck. I don't need people to do me favors and I don't want to owe any. There are other ways to safeguard my future.

So why give?

The way I see it, you spend your younger years earning money. You don't necessarily need to give any of it away during this phase. As you get to the point where you have made your money, you usually look back with some fondness on the industry, friends, associates, etc. that helped you get where you are. At this point, if you can afford it, it is quite proper to give donations to help those who may be starting out (in your chosen field) and also to charities that you find worthwhile. If you are among the Buffetts or the Gates' of the world, you can expand your giving accordingly.

I am in what I call my exit strategy, just trying to make my money and my life run out at the same time. (If I can live until next Tuesday, I have it made.) I have found that putting back into the industry that provided my livelyhood is quite satisfying. I've also found that there are some charities who do good work (mostly for the unfortunate) and don't pocket most of the money, and I prefer to donate what I feel I can to them.

There are those who may feel that, if you have it, you should share it. I don't particularly share that philosophy.

just my $.02,
Wes

I give money and time to organizations that I participate in and that reflect my values. Since these are mostly charitable organizations that do not return material goods or produce a profit, donations are how they function.

Church, for instance, or local cooperatives. In some cases the cash value can be deducted from taxes, not a bad deal.

give money or give of self ?
 

Its the "I don't need people to do me favors and I don't want to owe any" line that strikes me.

This propsed view is kinda cynical also, but I think it holds water:
--I ask-Can you guarantee that you will **never** need people to do you favors ?-- (I think that there are a lot of things that money can't buy)
If you can guaranteee a life not requiring intervention, then by this arguement doesnt apply to you. Perhaps someone else will present a better one (my presentation sucks =)

I see life as pretty chancy for everyone, so why not help others, I've seen "what goes around comes around" enough times to belive it will always be true.

You origional question asked about why giving is part of a finanical plan: there are many better reasons to give (money) than the ones that I've mentioned, most of them transcend this world and material posessions (IMHO) but as far as finances go, thats how I see it.
-John

Kuan the reasons are not simple, maybe its just because its the right thing to do. But pretty much all wealthy people donate a lot of money. Actualy according to Robert K, giving is an important part of acheiving financial success.

Thanks for your thoughts Wes, and Kyle, Hattie, and Sid, John, Raymr. It's a tough subject for me since I find myself on the giving side a lot and can't find any financial justification for doing so. It seems most people agree that charity is a good thing. At least half the people in America agree that charity should be voluntary, and most believe that it's their constitutional right to make a buck by any legal means possible.

My kid has a piggy bank with four slots. Save, spend, give, and invest. Yeah yeah, I know he's a little young. Most parenting guidelines they start getting it at around five. But now I find myself in the predicament of trying to explain why giving is important. Why should he share his toys? Why share anything?

I think it comes down that we all have to live in this world, so if one can afford to they should give to help others.

Look at how much aid we send to other countries, we probably give more money then almost any other country.

It all comes down to what has already been stated:

What goes around, comes around. It's a universal value. We are social creatures and we function best when we cooperate.

If you enjoy giving, then by all means do it. If you do not enjoy it then do not do it.

Most importantly, if you give someone a gift, pay no attention to how your gift is used. Once you give it away it's not your business anymore.

Why give? The only reason I would give is if I wanted to.

Ah, it's all about the children. I see why you're seeking advice! That's a head scratcher for sure.

For sharing it's easy (well, easy for me to say, anyhow). If you don't share you won't have any friends and they won't be inclined to share with you, either.

For giving, does he ever color pictures and give them to people, or do that sort of thing? Maybe you don't need to explain anything about giving, other than what your personal motivations are if he asks.

Well it started out about the 3 year old, but it quickly became about me. He gives, he's difficult when it comes to sharing, but he's getting there. It's just a matter of getting a grip on his emotions.

In a sense, this thread is starting to turn into the pointer in OD's moral-political compass. I'd like to hear more. I'd really like to hear from those who think giving is not at all important, and why.

Wow, well said.

Kuan, you mentioned becoming "rich," and that giving can only delay said condition. It's a cliche, but "rich" is a subjective term. I don't make nearly enough to give enough money to claim it on my taxes (I don't think -- I've never really investigated what the limit is), but I nevertheless enjoy giving. I feel "rich" for doing so, and I agree that what goes around comes round -- the karma effect. I have received plenty of it, and I like contributing as well. For example,
I try to assist stranded motorists; I would like to know that someone might do the same for me when I need it, and I think someone probably would.

Maybe the answer is aesthetic. A person who develops the ability to give is a more beautiful person than the selfish person? Selfishness strikes me as ugly.
I visited the mansion house of the Oneida Community last week. Probably the most giving American social experiment ever imagined and carried out. It was almost a complete Christian communism devoted to the development of human happiness thru unselfishness, to the point where they considered monogamous marriage selfishness. The whole community considered itself married, sexual relations occurred (heterosexually) between members freely, and the children were considered property of the community and not the parents. They considered sexual acts the most divine of human acts and avoided pregnancies thru the deliberately cultivated ability of the males to not ejaculate during sex. According to most studies carried out by professional observers, the people in the community were very happy.

Here is another explaination. If you earn say $100 over the tax bracket, you are now in a higher tax bracket and taxed at a higher percentage. As such, you might be better off donating say $200 to a deductable charity and bring yourself under the higher bracket into the lower bracket. So you give to get something.

Yes it is. However, if you give and feel good, you are basically buying yourslf a good feeling. Just like sex. You can get yourself off. However sometimes it is better with a hooker. You pay her to get you off and you feel good about it as compared to a DIY job.

What goes around comes around only in certain circumstances. Very often it doesn't. So, that isn't a rule. It is a hope. For instance, the "Golden Rule" only works if enough people in a community believe in it and carry it out. Otherwise, it is a pretty saying but essentially worthless.

Yes. However that aid is not free. NILIF. We do it so it buys us something in the future.

Interesting analogy
 

Don't think I'd use that with the kids, though.

I've always tried to teach my kids the value of 1) working for the things they want, 2) saving some of everything thing they get, 3) sharing (giving) some of what they have been fortunate to have, and 4) recognizing that once you've given something to someone, it's theirs. Quit worrying about it.

These things seem to have worked pretty well for me. My dad taught them to me, and both he and I have done pretty well in life.

My kids, who are 29, 16, and 14 seem to be on the right track, so far, Kuan. Good luck with yours. Being a good person, kind, and generous hasn't ever hurt anyone that I know of. Being a mean-spirited, tight-wad, ********* has, though.

I have seen it enough to take, on faith, that it generally does. That's "rule" enough for me. Of course, that's a personal belief, and I don't expect you, or anyone else, to share it. That said, I am very comfortable in my belief that good deeds do not go unnoticed; I am a much happier person since realizing this.

imo giving is a core element in what is commonly called family values. However, most optional values are aesthetic. An infant can't provide for them self. He or she must be given nutrition or will die. Giving an infant food is a value that is not optional, if sustaining his or her life is a goal.

Ever since I decided to read this thread yesterday I've found myself thinking about it more and more.

Kerry, I love your comment about giving as beauty and selfishness as ugliness. It rings true.

Kuan, I wouldn't be quick to judge people based on their comments here. Actions speak much louder than words.

One thing I keep thinking about is that we tend to think our gifts are worth more than they are. They may not have the impact we imagine they will. For that reason I think it's wise to give only when it is the act of giving, and not the intended result, that will make you happy with it.

Absolutely
 

Giving isn't much different than for-giving in that regard. It usually does the giver more good than the recipient. Don't give anything with strings attached. That's not really giving.

Barring an accident where both parents are killed, An infant needs to be provided for by its parents. If they cannot do that, they should not be having kids or have kids.

My grandpa who lived in Germany died many years ago, but he used to go out on walks and sometimes bring home bums and homeless people for lunch and a chat, or maybe some schnapps. My grandmother used to yell at him something fierce whenever he did that, but it didn't stop him. Likewise he was generous to everyone he knew with whatever he had, and they didn't really have very much.

I often wish I could be more like him. Whenever we talk about 'Opa', there are always smiles and a funny story or two. Did he purposely engineer his favors so people will remember him fondly? I doubt it, he was just a good guy.

double post

Go back several years and read your 'locks of love' thread and you tell us;)

Of course, in regard to states giving to other states. But what about us giving to states that have little power in world affairs. We gave $2B to Haiti, most of which was stolen btw. But still what role could that little dirt poor island play thats worth $2B?

We shouldn't give to those countries. Don't know why we do. Probably for another $2B we could have owned that country outright

Divide $2B by the pop of Haiti, you will be sick. That money went into someones bank account.:o Giving to countries like that is for suckers unless you watch where the money is going. Which we don't.:o

I don't care if it goes to 2 people or 200000 people. Fact of the matter is that it isn't part of our concern

For me it is because I have seen the value of what I have done when combined with the giving of others. I gain great satisfaction from that. Something my sister started last Christmas that I found really intriguing is giving a donation to a farm charity that gives 3rd world farmers a beehive or a cow or a chicken to raise. The charity (whose name escapes me) has rules that the beneficiary has to follow. The overhead is low and the value of the dollars are wonderfully magnified.

I get no personal satisfaction from paying taxes.

What is one of the fundamental things we learned in kindergarten?
'Sharing';... no one wants to play with a selfish person.:mad:

Fast forward a few years.......Do you like to do business or 'play' with a selfish adult?
I think it is important for the heart, mind & character of a person to be an unselfish giver. It helps us not be a miserly selfish slave to money or stuff.

In other words, 'we need to give' for our own edification & mental/spiritual health.:D

(I'm not talking about Taxes; which are required by law and the Govmn't TAKES from you.)

"For the LOVE of money is a root of all kinds of evil." 1 Timothy 6:10

We are all selfish. We do this to get that. Nobody gives something for nothing. Either you get something back or you get a warm feeling in your tummy or whatever. You are paid. Perhaps in a different coin but you are still paid. What you are hoping for is Utopia. Not in this life.

That's just so contradictory.

1) Everyone is selfish
2) We give to get something
3) We know (1) to be true

Therefore we know that giving gets us nothing

We give a donation to the X foundation because we want that nice feeling of doing something good. Just like I want the nice feeling of getting laid by a female so I hire a hooker. She doesn't work for free and gets paid. I get a laid feeling by spending money. Ordinarily, I wouldn't give her a dime. However, because I want to get laid by her, I give her money. So, I want that feeling that I did something good, I dump a bunch of cash to a charity. They get something and I get something. That good feeling isn't free. Am I selfish? You bet. However, I have needs that I cannot meet myself. So, I give you something and get something in return. If I could meet my own needs, I wouldn't give you a thing.

I don't think the feeling you get from a prostitute is something you can compare with the feeling you get from giving something to someone in good faith.

You hire a hooker to take care of a selfish need; giving, assuming it's done sincerely, satisfies your desire to not be selfish.

Giving can be done cynically, but when it's done sincerely it is selfless, not selfish.

No dispute here.

OK. Here is where we differ. If it satisfies a desire not to be selfish, you are still giving money to satisfy a desire. So, how is it selfless? As I understand it, selfless is to do something for NOTHING.

So if I give or share something, and feel good about it, thats selfish? So next time I make a donation, I'll be sure to do it in a grumpy manner so nobody thinks I'm fulfilling some desire.

I shared you viewpoint once, that ulterior motives are the sole drivers of everything we do. In fact, I had one of those big round buttons hanging in my car that aptly displayed my philosophy. It read "Everybody Has A Price". I tossed it away when I finally grew up.

A person who has learned to enjoy unselfish pleasures in addition to the enjoyment of selfish pleasures (which seems to come naturally) has a more complex character which is more aesthetically pleasing.

In evolutionary terms humans have the ability to detect hunting partners who can be counted upon to help in a pinch. Selfish hunting partners tended to be de-selected naturally.