How Do We "Win" a War on Terror? - Page 27 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**391** 09-03-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

That's why I said that in the quote you referenced.

I added the "AT ALL COSTS" to that line. Too many people want to win but as long as they don't get their lily white hands dirty.

aklim · #**392** 09-03-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

That's because the rest of the world waits and acts dependent on who is currently occupying our White House

There's a good healthy dose of unfounded American arrogance.

Damn. I didn't know that till today. I fill so

now

peragro · #**393** 09-03-2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I added the "AT ALL COSTS" to that line. Too many people want to win but as long as they don't get their lily white hands dirty.

I more worried about the folks who don't want to win and don't want to get their hands dirty.

I maintain, you shouldn't start a fight without the intention of winning it.

I should add that we didn't start this current fight, but that doesn't change the intention to win.

450slcguy · #**394** 09-03-2006, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

There is only a finite time that this can continue though before there must be an end to state sponsored terrorism or radical Islam or Messianic Medievalism or whatever one wants to call it.

I agree. I don't think there will ever be enough time when it comes to making peace with the Islamic world.

The only thing that stopped the Japanese was the realization of the utter destruction of their homeland and people. Germany was defeated because of the depletion of their resources and the failed dreams of their leaders.

We are not fighting an army or a country but more of a way of life that is the Muslim eqivaliant of our American masifest destiny. All or nothing.

peragro · #**395** 09-03-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I agree. I don't think there will ever be enough time when it comes to making peace with the Islamic world.

The only thing that stopped the Japanese was the realization of their utter destruction of homeland and people. Germany was defeated because of the depletion of their resources and the failed dreams of their leaders.

We are not fighting an army or a country but more of a way of life that is the Muslim eqivaliant of our American masifest destiny. All or nothing.

Japan was, and is, a way of life. They found a way to adapt.

I would think that there are more people who would rather have the Western and Asian way of life than the radical Muslim way of life.

450slcguy · #**396** 09-03-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

Japan was, and is, a way of life. They found a way to adapt.

Japan found a way to adapt as a people and country because if they didn't they would have been dead. Funny thing how the fear of complete extermination can alters ones sense of reality. They retained their culture and their lives because they understood when they were totally defeated. Islam hasn't learned that lesson yet because they still believe they can win. Their backs and hearts havn't been broken or won over, just the opposite.

I want to see the Islamic world rise up in masses and condem this radical extremism and persue a policy of social and religious tolerance. Just like they did with the cartoon incident. They are capable of it when it's something they believe in. But I haven't seen that type of belief in peace or religious tolerance, in Iraq or anywhere else in the world when it comes to denouncing Islamic extremism.

It's time for the peace loveing Muslims of the world to step up to plate and start preaching 21st century civility, or face the possible consequences aimed towards the Islamic extremism that they won't disavow.

raymr · #**397** 09-03-2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I agree. I don't think there will ever be enough time when it comes to making peace with the Islamic world.

The only thing that stopped the Japanese was the realization of the utter destruction of their homeland and people. Germany was defeated because of the depletion of their resources and the failed dreams of their leaders.

We are not fighting an army or a country but more of a way of life that is the Muslim eqivaliant of our American masifest destiny. All or nothing.

A display of ultimate force sounds like a good idea, but it may or may not work. If the US were to drop a nuke tomorrow, where would it be?

soypwrd · #**398** 09-04-2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

... I fear that it will end in a military strike. Strategically we are well positioned for this eventuality. Carrier groups in the gulf and many military units close by.

Militarily we surely are prepared. But on the homefront we are far from it. This administration has failed to bring the people into the true conflict and we are wholey unprepared for the consequences of such a situation. What were we told to do on 9/12? Go shopping. Helluva message for a nation at war. Great thing to say for a re-election bid though. More of rove making stragegic moves where he has no damn business.

Not that I don`t believe we might have to strike Iran, but be prepared to be cold/hot, hungry, and defend what fuel and provisions you might have stashed. It could get quite ugly for the soft belly of nascar nation. Such a senario will send up cheers among the enemy, and recruiting will go up as they see us collapsing from within.

If these scoundrals believe we are truely at war they better damn sight get the public engaged for the realities of such a conflict. Happy talk and tax breaks sure won`t do the trick. It`s long past time for public push ups.

450slcguy · #**399** 09-04-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

A display of ultimate force sounds like a good idea, but it may or may not work. If the US were to drop a nuke tomorrow, where would it be?

A nuclear strike by us somewhere in the Middle east would set off a string of events that I'd dare not speculate about. Certainly not something to be considered lightly and certainly not without worldwide reprocussions. But I think it's eventually inevitable that somewhere, sometime it's gonna happen. Hopefully it's preemptive and not postemptive.

But no doubt in my mind, if it ever comes to that, it will be Irans nuclear facilities. That's the #1 danger to this country (N. Korea a close 2nd). It would probably involve more than one target though. I'd surmise their facililities for uranium enrichment and weapons development are spread out in several different locations and one strike probably wouldn't totally irradicate their nuclear weapons program.

peragro · #**400** 09-04-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soypwrd

Militarily we surely are prepared. But on the homefront we are far from it. This administration has failed to bring the people into the true conflict and we are wholey unprepared for the consequences of such a situation. What were we told to do on 9/12? Go shopping. Helluva message for a nation at war. Great thing to say for a re-election bid though. More of rove making stragegic moves where he has no damn business.

Not that I don`t believe we might have to strike Iran, but be prepared to be cold/hot, hungry, and defend what fuel and provisions you might have stashed. It could get quite ugly for the soft belly of nascar nation. Such a senario will send up cheers among the enemy, and recruiting will go up as they see us collapsing from within.

If these scoundrals believe we are truely at war they better damn sight get the public engaged for the realities of such a conflict. Happy talk and tax breaks sure won`t do the trick. It`s long past time for public push ups.

Sounds like your condemning the administration for doing what they did and at the same time condemning them for not persuading you that it was neccesary. That's not their failing, it's yours. It's been obvious for a while that there were Islamists out to get us. 9/11 was merely a wake up call. It should have surprised no one, but it did. What do you think the message has been from the administration since 9/12? It's kinda hard to recieve such a message when one is constantly preoccupied with "this guys is dumb", "that guy is diabolical", "they're all evil"...

I have a lot more confidence in the Nascar crowd to get by. They know how to make things and repair things. Look for problems from your New Yorkers and Los Angelinos and Hollywood types. Cooincidentally the same people that have seemed to miss the very message you think should have been pushed - and it has been, going on 5 years now.

peragro · #**401** 09-04-2006, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

A nuclear strike by us somewhere in the Middle east would set off a string of events that I'd dare not speculate about. Certainly not something to be considered lightly and certainly not without worldwide reprocussions. But I think it's eventually inevitable that somewhere, sometime it's gonna happen. Hopefully it's preemptive and not postemptive.

But no doubt in my mind, if it ever comes to that, it will be Irans nuclear facilities. That's the #1 danger to this country (N. Korea a close 2nd). It would probably involve more than one target though. I'd surmise their facililities for uranium enrichment and weapons development are spread out in several different locations and one strike probably wouldn't totally irradicate their nuclear weapons program.

Currently a nuclear Iran is more of a threat to Europe. We are out of range of their missiles. We are vulnerable to a suitcase device. Europe seems a bit worried but they miss the point and think that if they just give them what they want then everyone will be happy. Plus it's the UN's problem not theirs. Not to mention that Europe is conditioned to think that the US will bail them out if things get really bad - we always have before, Gives them ample oppurtunity to act superior and scoff at us.

450slcguy · #**402** 09-04-2006, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soypwrd

Militarily we surely are prepared. But on the homefront we are far from it. This administration has failed to bring the people into the true conflict and we are wholey unprepared for the consequences of such a situation. What were we told to do on 9/12? Go shopping. Helluva message for a nation at war. Great thing to say for a re-election bid though. More of rove making stragegic moves where he has no damn business.

Not that I don`t believe we might have to strike Iran, but be prepared to be cold/hot, hungry, and defend what fuel and provisions you might have stashed. It could get quite ugly for the soft belly of nascar nation. Such a senario will send up cheers among the enemy, and recruiting will go up as they see us collapsing from within.

If these scoundrals believe we are truely at war they better damn sight get the public engaged for the realities of such a conflict. Happy talk and tax breaks sure won`t do the trick. It`s long past time for public push ups.

Yes, the realities would be staggering for both sides, and the whole world in particular. Somehow there has to be another way to attain peace in the Middle East, but with this radical Islamic extremism I don't see negotiations solving anything. Noone will be ready when it comes and I fear we will all loose.

450slcguy · #**403** 09-04-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

Currently a nuclear Iran is more of a threat to Europe. We are out of range of their missiles.

Are we? Maybe this year, how about next year? The technology for inter-continental missles has been around for many decades, and with the availabilty of technology these day's I don't see the US or the Russians holding the patents on them much longer.

Maybe I give our enemies to much credit, but I don't want to underestimate a determined enemy. History is filled with examples of underestimating ones adversaries.

450slcguy · #**404** 09-04-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peragro

Sounds like your condemning the administration for doing what they did and at the same time condemning them for not persuading you that it was neccesary.

Maybe so. Something to think about.

aklim · #**405** 09-04-2006, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

Japan found a way to adapt as a people and country because if they didn't they would have been dead. Funny thing how the fear of complete extermination can alters ones sense of reality. They retained their culture and their lives because they understood when they were totally defeated. Islam hasn't learned that lesson yet because they still believe they can win. Their backs and hearts havn't been broken or won over, just the opposite.

I want to see the Islamic world rise up in masses and condem this radical extremism and persue a policy of social and religious tolerance. Just like they did with the cartoon incident. They are capable of it when it's something they believe in. But I haven't seen that type of belief in peace or religious tolerance, in Iraq or anywhere else in the world when it comes to denouncing Islamic extremism.

It's time for the peace loveing Muslims of the world to step up to plate and start preaching 21st century civility, or face the possible consequences aimed towards the Islamic extremism that they won't disavow.

Because, thanks to us, we have been reinforcing them with the idea that we will bow down when push comes to shove.

Maybe you won't because my belief is that they are kinda like the silent partners of a company.

There are a few to be sure but that is my point. If they are that against radical islam, why only are a few ever whispered about? Where are the rest? Being silent partners with radical islam while their governments are claiming they are not?