How Do We "Win" a War on Terror? - Page 17 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Honus · #**241** 08-25-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

And later Antony reflects on the inconsistency of Caesar's former admirers.

But I am here to say what I do know.
You all loved him once, for good reasons.

What reason keeps you from mourning for him, then?
O judgment, you have run away to dumb animals,
And men have lost their intelligence!

Apples and oranges. Caesar didn't trade Sammy Sosa.

Maroon 300D · #**242** 08-25-2006, 12:20 PM

This is interesting. Statistics indicating that religious zeal plays a smaller role in suicide attacks than we perhaps thought.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/the-terrorism-theory-bush-refuses-to-hear/2006/08/25/1156012739242.html

Botnst · #**243** 08-25-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Apples and oranges. Caesar didn't trade Sammy Sosa.

No kidding, a literal comparison between a 16th century play about a Roman political assissnation is somehow different from today? Geez, whodduh thunk.

On the other hand, if we think metaphorically rather than literally then perhaps the scales wil fall from our eyes. I don't mean that we literally have scales over our eyes. I mean ... nevermind.

bot

Honus · #**244** 08-25-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

No kidding, a literal comparison between a 16th century play about a Roman political assissnation is somehow different from today? Geez, whodduh thunk.

On the other hand, if we think metaphorically rather than literally then perhaps the scales wil fall from our eyes. I don't mean that we literally have scales over our eyes. I mean ... nevermind.

bot

Who's the one being literal here? Did you really think that my comment was about trading a baseball player? And did you really think that I was serious about that?

And why so personal?

Botnst · #**245** 08-25-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Who's the one being literal here? Did you really think that my comment was about trading a baseball player? And did you really think that I was serious about that?

And why so personal?

It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.

Michael

peragro · #**246** 08-25-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

How long ya'all going to ride that train?

Personnaly, I think I'll ride that train as long as folks continue to ascribe to the man supernatural bogeyman powers that make him the root of all evil. Essentially, the ball is in your court. It is kinda fun though...

aklim · #**247** 08-25-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maroon 300D

This is interesting. Statistics indicating that religious zeal plays a smaller role in suicide attacks than we perhaps thought.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/the-terrorism-theory-bush-refuses-to-hear/2006/08/25/1156012739242.html

At this time it is still a theory. A decent theory to be sure but still a theory. In any case, I'd say solve the problem first then sit and do analysis as to why this, that or the other. If you cannot stop the attacks, all the theories in the world won't help. If someone is trying to kill me, figuring out that somebody set a fire in antartica that melted some ice which caused some bees to get washed out which stung a walrus which ...... doesn't help. Kill the guy first then figure out why.

gdemoss01 · #**248** 08-26-2006, 02:35 PM

Last year my chances of being attack by an elephant or tiger were zero.

I feel very safe knowing that the govenment is protecting me from elephant attacks. There are not any tigers in my front yard either.

Now driving a car is a different matter...

t walgamuth · #**249** 08-26-2006, 03:13 PM

personally i think our war in iraq has seriously destabilized the middle east.

yes, i think it has encouraged folks like hezbollah.

we are not as invincible as many thought we were. both us and them.

iraq was a third rate power. we defeated it....sort of. sadaam is out yes, but what we have now does not seem much if any better. and we seriously have our foot in a bear trap there.

we cannot win and we cannot leave.

effectively all our armed forces are tied up so we cannot offer a serious deterrant anywhere else so iran north korea and every other jack leg thinks they can do what the iraqui insurgents are doing.

those types are encouraged every where.

so do i feel safer now?

definately not.

tom w

Botnst · #**250** 08-26-2006, 04:34 PM

"Destabilized"? From what?

B

t walgamuth · #**251** 08-26-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

"Destabilized"? From what?

B

granted it was no picture of good stuff before.

but now it is worse, imho.

i think sharon's ultra aggressive campaign has not worked well either.

tom w

Botnst · #**252** 08-26-2006, 04:42 PM

Sharon hasn't been aggressive in a coupla months.

You probably mean Olmert, who couldn't decide whether to have a war or not and as a consequence, got a lot of his own soldiers killed and also a lot of innocent civilians: confusing aerial bombardment with seizing the enemy's territory.

t walgamuth · #**253** 08-26-2006, 04:53 PM

actually i knew sharon was comatose (is he still alive?) barely i think.

though i woulnt have been able to name his successor, who has as you noted not really done a stellar job either.

tom w

peragro · #**254** 08-26-2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

granted it was no picture of good stuff before.

but now it is worse, imho.

i think sharon's ultra aggressive campaign has not worked well either.

tom w

Why would you call Sharon's campaign ultra-aggressive? Of all the leadership in Israel he and his Kadima party have been the most devoted to a two-state model for Palestine and Israel. Even more so than the Palestinian goverment. After breaking away from the Likud party to specifically pursue the two-state option he returned land in Gaza which promptly precipitated attacks from Gaza and Lebanon by Hamas and Hezbollah. Essetially Sharon followed a policy of appeasement, or giving folks what they wanted so everyone could just get along.

Perhaps it would have worked if only he were dealing with Palestine and Israel. What he didn't consider was that the other Arab nations have never really been so much as for the Palestinians as they have been against Israel. This latest debacle has pretty much ended any hope of a two-state solution. Either Israel is destroyed or "palestine" lives in exile (or becomes Israeli citizens as they are free to do) in perpetua. Not surprisingly, there haven't been many comments from the islamo fascist apologists on this board. It seems that even they see Hezbollah's victory as one for Iran and for neither Israel or Palestine.

As I've pointed out before, the latest conflict in Lebanon has been more than just a proxy for a war between Iran and the US. It should also be a lesson for what happens when a left leaning liberal government pursues a policy of retreat and appeasement. It may sound nice and seem like the thing to do at the time, but it detrimentally multiplys the consequences of these actions when facing a ruthless enemy for the next administration down the road. I'm pretty sure that Likud will be in the drivers seat before long in Israel. It's a pity that the damage is already done and the mess now is significantly greater to deal with. Hopefully there can be some creative way of dealing with this loss. We shouldn't fail to learn a lesson from this last month of proxy war, but I'm pretty sure in November we will.

aklim · #**255** 08-26-2006, 07:19 PM

A large part of the problem is that we are trying to do everything. Know why Hezbollah is succeeding? Because they concentrate on 1 thing and then move on. We try to do 10000 things all at once. When we trip up and fail, we wonder why. I don't.

You can talk about hearts and minds all you want. If you cannot ensure basic stability, you have nothing. What does all the constitition of the US mean to me when I am hungry and there is chaos? Absolutely nothing. The problem is we are well fed and safe so we can start thinking of other things. Look at art. If you don't have food, can you eat your art? Your music? Probably not. We are trying to win the hearts and minds and all that crap when we cannot even ensure that there is electricity, running water and safety. Take an infant and try that move. See how far you get. Worry about the enemies and all that later. If you cannot ensure stability, none of what you are trying to accomplish will work.

I guess the first order of business is to dump out all the previous instructions and directives. Second is to restore order. Third is to restore basic services. After that you can go into the minutae.