bobby knight fans out there? - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #46 11-17-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

["everyone is a winner" so you don't feel so bad at night. I never said "everyone is a winner". i said if you play to your best ability you are a winner.

as in auto racing, if you spin folks out to win you are a loser in my book.

as in a street altercation if you are arguing with someone and you sucker punch them you might knock them out but you are a loser in my book.

if you embrace win at any cost or cheat you are a loser.

he threw a lamp at a secretary at iu, for christs sake, how is that excusable? no, in my book he is just a cowardly, sleazy bully.

tom w

I thought the score in the game determined who won?

There are rules there and I if you break them, well, I doubt you could win that event.

That even has no rules, no governing body, etc, etc.

Not talking about cheating, am I? Besides, that is what the refs are for.

Didn't say it was excusable. I am saying he got his players to win.

aklim · #47 11-17-2006, 08:24 PM

[QUOTE=MS Fowler;1333615]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Good joke. I needed to start the work day with a laugh. I guess that is good for people that don't make the cut who need a crutch to feel that they have also won something.

Too bad you fee that way. This was a discussion about BK, and yet you chose to make it personal, why?

Honor is more valuable than winning.

Not making it personal. It just sounded funny, is all. You asked about those intangibles as tho that is what we measure things by. It gives me a chuckle. We say it, fly the banners and all that, but basically give lip service to those intangibles in real life. Look at Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith. They are all those values and more. Did the Cowboys retain them? You don't produce after a bit, you are out. I don't know many more with those qualities you talk about but it didn't help them much. My employer doesn't care about my spending the weekends with disenfranchised children, etc, etc. When I am not producing, I am cut, plain and simple. What does that tell you that the world counts firstly and foremostly? It tells me that results are important. As long as you don't cause more trouble than you are worth, they will keep you. When you do, well......

t walgamuth · #48 11-17-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Hmmm. Reading what I said and reflecting on it with what was said previously. Try it sometime. You might be surprised at what you find.

JD crowned me as the winner at MB Shop for being the biggest pessimist. I said it was easy to be top dog amongst a bunch of mutts. What about that statement escapes you?

it is hard to pick out the sarcasm from the crushing negativism.

so you were actually saying you are a mutt too?

tom w

t walgamuth · #49 11-17-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I thought the score in the game determined who won?

There are rules there and I if you break them, well, I doubt you could win that event.

That even has no rules, no governing body, etc, etc.

Not talking about cheating, am I? Besides, that is what the refs are for.

Didn't say it was excusable. I am saying he got his players to win.

if you feel that the score is all that matters well there that sums up the difference in our beliefs.

personally i feel that personal integrity or lack of it is more important than the score.

and i think there are way too many folks who just honor the ability to produce large sums of money.

tom w

aklim · #50 11-18-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

it is hard to pick out the sarcasm from the crushing negativism.

so you were actually saying you are a mutt too?

tom w

I thought I said it before. It is easy to be top dog amongst a bunch of mutts. IIRC, that is a saying too. It is much harder to be top dog amongst a bunch of pedigreed dogs. I also never claimed to be royalty or anything special. What do you think?

aklim · #51 11-18-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

if you feel that the score is all that matters well there that sums up the difference in our beliefs.personally i feel that personal integrity or lack of it is more important than the score.

and i think there are way too many folks who just honor the ability to produce large sums of money.

If the score doesn't matter, why keep score? I play cards of checkers with the wife and win or lose, I don't keep score. I play cards in a casino and you bet I keep score. You can talk of personal integrity all you want. Open your door and tell me what you see. I see people pay lip service to integrity and all that. The rewards are just not there. That tells me what it is really worth to them, doesn't it? Look at any professional sports team. What do they pay for? Look at the companies that hire people. Do most of them care that you spend your weekends tutoring kids that can't read? It might be a tiebreaker but that is about it. That you spent the last 10 years in Africa doing missionary work will be second to the money you will bring in tells me all I need to know. Yes, of course if they can have a winning score and a great person, it would be wonderful. However, who would they hire? A guy with a winning score and an average personal or a guy with a losing score but a great person? When I hire somebody, I am not interested in all that extraneous stuff. The first thing I look at is your skills and your worth to my company.

Yes, but what of it? That is how the world is. I have to recognize that and move along.

t walgamuth · #52 11-18-2006, 07:16 AM

i never said the score didnt matter. i said it wasnt the most important thing. and if your philosophy is as stated above, i guess that is fine for you. personally i couldnt live that way.

personal integrity matters to me and i think it matters to most people. if you have bought into that harsh winning is the only thing attitude, well, too bad for you.

i suppose the folks i do business with you would say are all losers because they arent the richest. but i know i can depend on them to have done what they said they did. that is what matters to me.

and that is integrity.

tom w

aklim · #53 11-18-2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

i never said the score didnt matter. i said it wasnt the most important thing. and if your philosophy is as stated above, i guess that is fine for you. personally i couldnt live that way.

personal integrity matters to me and i think it matters to most people. if you have bought into that harsh winning is the only thing attitude, well, too bad for you.

i suppose the folks i do business with you would say are all losers because they arent the richest. but i know i can depend on them to have done what they said they did. that is what matters to me.

and that is integrity.

tom w

Well, if scores aren't the thing we are trying to achieve, I wouldn't keep score. Know many teams that just play and not keep score? I do hear many groups that do say that scores aren't important and all that when they lose to comfort the players. Whether I can live that way or not is not important. The world IS that way. We can choose to see it as it is or lie to ourselves. Me, I NEVER lie to myself.

It doesn't matter if I buy into it or not. The world is that way. They will say all the nice things but when it comes down to it, well, they seem to act in a different way. Just my observation a long time ago. Nothing has changed to convince me that it is wrong yet.

Well, the fact is pretty much everyone is a loser on that scale. At least pretty much everyone I know including myself. I don't trust people that far. As much as I can, I verify every now and then to make sure they are doing what they say they are doing. When it goes out long enough, I haven't had people that disappoint me since I am ready for them to do weird things. Sure, there are pleasant surprises in the short run but in the long run, people haven't been what they seem. I hope for the best but expect the worse. So it is always a pleasant surprise or I am expecting. Seems to work best.

t walgamuth · #54 11-18-2006, 10:28 AM

see now that doesnt sound so negative.

i prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

if you expect the worst lots of times you will get it.

i have found in dealing with folks that if someone is very suspicious of others you had better keep a close eye on him or her.

tom w

aklim · #55 11-18-2006, 10:36 AM

Sure I hope for the best case scenario but I prepare for the worst because of past experience. Also current experience has shown me that it works because if they do exceed expectations, I am pleasantly surprised that my hopes have come true for today. When they meet expectations, I am ready. No disappointment since I didn't have high expectations of them anyways. Like buying a lottery ticket. I hope to win but I am expecting to lose that dollar I bought the ticket with. Either it will meet my expectations and nothing will come out or not. If not and say I get $1 and break even, it is a pleasant surprise. If I get more, better pleasant surprise. Since I realized that, unless there is bad judgment on my part, I haven't been disappointed.

I keep a close eye on people anyways. While I trust my wife, I frequently verify what she says or does. If she passes the test, I move on till I re-evaluate later on. If she fails, I check more and more till I determine what happened.

#56 11-18-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

if you expect the worst lots of times you will get it.

i have found in dealing with folks that if someone is very suspicious of others you had better keep a close eye on him or her.

tom w

Yip, it is a revolving door much of my success is solely because when I tell people something I follow through with it. When the other party finds a lower rate or changes the deal that differs from what we agreed on I follow through with the hammer if I am in the power position in the situation they get the hammer.

The folks that do not trust other don't know it but they get the shaft most of the time because people will not go out of their way to earn trust that will never be granted. Usually the person that assumes most people have no honor are seriously deficient in the honor department themselves.

#57 11-18-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I keep a close eye on people anyways. While I trust my wife, I frequently verify what she says or does. If she passes the test, I move on till I re-evaluate later on. If she fails, I check more and more till I determine what happened.

OMFG

t walgamuth · #58 11-18-2006, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedMech

Yip, it is a revolving door much of my success is solely because when I tell people something I follow through with it. When the other party finds a lower rate or changes the deal that differs from what we agreed on I follow through with the hammer if I am in the power position in the situation they get the hammer.

The folks that do not trust other don't know it but they get the shaft most of the time because people will not go out of their way to earn trust that will never be granted. Usually the person that assumes most people have no honor are seriously deficient in the honor department themselves.

i like your second paragraph very much.

tom w

aklim · #59 11-18-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MedMech

OMFG

Why? You expect blind trust? You think you can get there and rest on your laurels? Look around. There are people with perfect 10 year marriages and then suddenly they are blindsided. So yes, while you have earned a position of trust with me, that was then. I will verify every now and then to make sure that nothing has changed. If it hasn't, great. If it changes, I will investigate.

#60 11-18-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Why? You expect blind trust?

Yes, if they do decieve what difference does it make? That you "saw it coming"?

Use this Patton quote and apply it to trust.

Never tell people how to do things.
Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
- General George Patton Jr

I sincerely believe that the more trust you put into a person the harder they try to keep you informed and not decieve you. I have been deceived in business but those amounts do not come close to the amount of money I have made on trust alone.