Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 01-10-2007, 09:58 AM
Vronsky's Avatar
Enemy combatant
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Amsterdam, Old Europe
Posts: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
Friend yes. Relatives, no.

I understand that people would want him to stand trial or at least have his head dangling from a pike at ground zero. To me, that is fine. However, the issue does not begin or end with OBL. Rather I am way more worried about the millions that give tacit support of his cause.
If your government had kept it's focus on OBL, and OBL only, you wouldn't be in the quagmire you're now in.

__________________
2011 Prius
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-10-2007, 11:44 AM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Here's an example of covert operations that had its cover blown. I'm betting this kind of activity is not uncommon.

Bot


By Chiara Remondini and Gregory Viscusi

Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. and Italian agents accused of kidnapping an Egyptian cleric in 2003 disputed the right of a Milan court to try them, with the former head of Italy's military intelligence service threatening to call past and present ministers as witnesses if he's put on trial.

If Judge Caterina Interlandi decides to press charges against 35 U.S. and Italian agents for the 2003 abduction of Osama Mustafa Hassan Nasr, it would be first judicial examination of the U.S.'s policy of capturing terrorism suspects abroad and sending them to third countries for interrogation.

``Bob Lady insists the solution should be political and between the two governments and that this affair should not be the object of a criminal trial,'' said Daria Pesce, the lawyer for Robert Lady, the former Central Intelligence Agency station chief in the city who is accused by Milan prosecutor Armando Spataro of organizing the abduction. Pesce said she's withdrawing from the case ``because I am a lawyer and not a political mediator,'' and because Lady refuses to cooperate with the court.

Under the Italian system, a prosecutor, in this case Spataro, carries out an investigation and indicts the defendants. A judge then hears the case to decide whether to press charges. The actual trial would then be led by another judge, and the government has no legal right to intervene in the case.

After a first day of the initial proceedings in which lawyers on both sides presented various motions, Interlandi set the next hearing for Jan. 29.
Spataro, who brought the charges, compared Lady's arguments to those used by terrorists in the 1970s.

Tortured During Questioning
``Lady has contested the Italian justice system just as the Red Brigades did 20 years ago,'' Spataro said after the hearing, which wasn't open to the public.

According to Spataro, CIA and Italian agents kidnapped the Egyptian cleric, better known as Abu Omar, as he walked down a street in Milan and then flew him to Egypt where he was tortured during questioning about alleged terrorism links. He's still in custody there, prosecutors say.

Milan police were already tracking Abu Omar because they suspected him of recruiting Islamic radicals, and said the abduction disrupted their investigation.

Spataro also accuses Nicolo Pollari, the former head of Italy's military intelligence unit Sismi, and the agency's second-highest official, Marco Mancini, of helping with the kidnapping. Through lawyers, both men have declared their innocence.

In total, 26 U.S. individuals and nine Italians are accused.

`Reveals State Secrets'

In November, the government of Prime Minister Romano Prodi, which took office in June, replaced Pollari, as well as the heads of Sisde, the intelligence unit of the Interior Ministry, and Cesis, a body that compiles information from both services.

Former Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government denied that it or Italy's intelligence services had knowledge of or a role in Abu Omar's kidnapping.

``Either Pollari reveals state secrets, putting at risk national security, or he has no way to defend himself,'' said his lawyer Titta Madia after today's hearing. ``Some authority must take up this situation and take a decision.''
He said that if Pollari is sent to trial, he will ``call as witness the current Prime Minister, his predecessor, and all the authorities in charge of the secret services.''

None of the accused was present at today's hearing.

The accused Americans, including Lady, have left Italy, prosecutors said. The U.S. doesn't comment on specific cases against presumed terrorists.

Rendition Policy

Prosecutors say the case is an example of the U.S. policy of ``rendition,'' where terrorism suspects are shipped to countries with looser rules on using torture, such as Egypt, Morocco, and Jordan. Italy, the UK, Germany, Sweden, Macedonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina and Turkey cooperated with the U.S.'s rendition program by allowing flights to land and take off even though it broke the laws of those countries, the Council of Europe said in a report issued in June.

``The case of Abu Omar is a formally legal activity for the Americans,'' Italian Interior Minister Giuliano Amato said in an interview last week. ``They call it rendition and there are acts of the president authorizing these operations. In Italian terms this is a kidnapping which bluntly violates our criminal code.''

What a mess, it would be cleaner just to do a hit on him. One sniper 1k yards away, one shot, makes a big splash in the papers the next day then everyone forgets about it.
__________________
2006 CL500
2009 C300 4matic
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:02 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vronsky View Post
If your government had kept it's focus on OBL, and OBL only, you wouldn't be in the quagmire you're now in.
So your point is that if you could deliver OBL's head, life is good? Now, IF we had nuked Tora Bora then when he was there, we would have killed him and rocked the muslim world into the realization that we are serious. That we didn't told them that we could scream and yell but we don't dare go the distance. Besides that, OBL is insignificant when compared to those that support him. You look at the terrorist but you don't look at their support network. So, OBL is insignificant
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:07 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim View Post
So your point is that if you could deliver OBL's head, life is good? Now, IF we had nuked Tora Bora then when he was there, we would have killed him and rocked the muslim world into the realization that we are serious. That we didn't told them that we could scream and yell but we don't dare go the distance. Besides that, OBL is insignificant when compared to those that support him. You look at the terrorist but you don't look at their support network. So, OBL is insignificant
Nothing says don't mess with me like a mushroom cloud.
__________________
2006 CL500
2009 C300 4matic
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-10-2007, 12:08 PM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
it still sounds like we agree.

i dont agree that he is just a foot soldier though. he is an (unfortunalely) effective leader for the movement he is heading up. the loss of him i believe would make a big difference.

tom w
For real? Why? Tell us how he is an effective leader; please use information less than two years old.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-10-2007, 01:52 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,980
whatever.

he did bring down the towers.

and who is to say he is not operating on his desired schedule?

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:03 PM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
whatever.

he did bring down the towers.

and who is to say he is not operating on his desired schedule?

tom w
Yes, he planned the whole thing. I'm more worried about the logistical support that he has. Imagine the few stars of a good movie got together for a reshoot of the thing. The rest of the supporting cast is nowheres. How far would the movie get?
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:22 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,980
i hope you are right, but a part of me is holding my breath.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:25 PM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
whatever.

he did bring down the towers.

and who is to say he is not operating on his desired schedule?

tom w
Because he has a big mouth and likes to be on tv, like Donald Trump.

hope that helps.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:33 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,980
now there is something to fear.....the donald!

i vote him the most ridiculous hair.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 01-10-2007, 10:35 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
Nothing says don't mess with me like a mushroom cloud.
what a misguided fantasy! we will NEVER use them again......but the fear of it is a tool that we still use.

we are the only ones ever to use them in anger.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 01-11-2007, 12:51 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
i hope you are right, but a part of me is holding my breath.

tom w
What? You believe him and a few of his buddies acted alone without the tacit support of the rest of the muslim world?
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 01-11-2007, 12:56 AM
Matt SD300's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
what a misguided fantasy! we will NEVER use them again......but the fear of it is a tool that we still use.

we are the only ones ever to use them in anger.

tom w
Oh Please....

....NEVER.....say NEVER....
__________________
Matt (SD,CA)

1984 300SD.. White/Chrome Bunts..Green

1997 2500 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins 12 Valve 36 PSI of Boost = 400+hp & 800+tQ .. ..Greenspeed

2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Quad Cab Cummins 5.9 H.O "596hp/1225tq" 6 spd. Man. Leather Heated seats/Loaded..Flame Red....GREENSPEED

Global warming...Doing my part, Smokin da hippies..

Fight the good fight!......
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 01-11-2007, 12:58 AM
aklim's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Location: Greenfield WI, USA
Posts: 8,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
what a misguided fantasy! we will NEVER use them again......

but the fear of it is a tool that we still use.

we are the only ones ever to use them in anger.
and the whole world knows that.

Yes. I know you are afraid to pick up your gun but I am going to fear you and your gun. Sure. You afraid of the paper tiger with a loud roar?

And the result of that is?
__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 01-11-2007, 07:52 AM
MedMech
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
now there is something to fear.....the donald!

i vote him the most ridiculous hair.

tom w
sadly you don't get it.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page