Bad Plumber or S.O.P. ?
 

I went through a national home improvement chain to have a new water heater installed. The old water heater worked but was past it's life expectancy, so I decided to replace it before it failed.

The contractor came out yesterday and started draining the old water heater. He realized he had to do extra work to bring it up to code, namely installing a power vent heater. I ok'ed the extra work and that's when he told me I would not have hot water until they finished.

He said he "spun out the regulator" and can't replace it. What he meant was he cut the thermocouple wire and spun out the regulator and the heater won't work without a thermocouple.

Why would you need to remove the regulator to drain the tank? I understand why he would need to cut the thermocouple wire to remove the regulator, by why does he need to remove the regulator?

I don't see why any of the controls of the existing hot water heater needed to be touched at all. I've replaced a number of hot water heaters and never destroyed the controls.
Why a power vent? Isn't there an existing non-powered vent?
Are you saying the contractor realized it was a multi day job, after arriving on site, then damaged the hot water heater and told you he couldn't finish it that day? He couldn't figure out it was a multi-day job before damaging the existing heater?
I don't think this plumber would be returning to my house. I think he is a scam artist. I don't see why you would need a power vent. He's damaged the heater so you don't have time to investigate the necessity of the additional work.

What's s.o.p.?--ok, now I get it. Standard Operating Procedure. No that is not standard operating procedure unless a scam artist is involved.

Standard Operating Procedure.

A power vent has to be installed because the existing exhaust duct work goes behind drywall, which is apparently a big no-no.

I am trying to determine if he destroyed the regulator on purpose or if that is part of the job.

Not a part of the job.
Under what circumstances does the vent go behind drywall? Most chimneys are behind drywall at some point.

In thirtysomething years, I have replaced dozens of water heaters and often there's so much sand in the bottom of the tank that the drain is completely plugged and the water only trickles out. In those situations, you have to make more holes to get all the water out. The thermostat on a gas heater is one of the openings that you can get to fairly easily to effect the draining.

It sounds like he was in a rush so, cutting the thermocouple to free it from the thermostat (so the thermo can be unscrewed out of the tank) would be easier than unscrewing it. Unfortunately, it's irreversible if you run into other problems.
Your plumber was headed the right way to complete that job but, shouldn't have subjected you to a loss of hot water because of his lack of planning/foresight.

(edit) That photo looks like he cut the gas line to the pilot, not the thermocouple. Also, the handle is missing from the drain so, there's a pretty good chance that drain is somehow screwed-up too.

Still, that's no excuse leaving you with a cold shower. These days, it seems that level of service (piss-poor) is becoming more and more common in the trades. One thing: in all the WH swaps I did, I NEVER left a customer w/o hot water and believe me, I had some pretty nasty swaps.

if the vent was legal when it was installed it should be legal now.

"existing non conforming use."

imho

tom w

I opened the drain last month to check for sediment and the water came out fast and hard. The drain works fine.

Thanks Tom. I was under that impression as well, but this guy acted like my house was going to burn down. Maybe the Chicago codes are stricter, I don't know.

Bad plumber, no donut.

Down here, any WH older than 4-5 years will easily have 6" of concrete-like sediment inside.

Another picture
 

He cut the pilot light gas tube and the thermocouple wire, even though both of those have threaded connections to the regulator.

Thanks to everyone for their opinions.

When it comes to chimneys that is the farthest thing from the truth. If any type of deterioration is found by anyone in the building trades or power company the system is "red tagged". No exceptions; that is the rule in Michigan.

deterioration is not a code compliance issue.

i believe what this guy was talking about was an upgrade to conform to today's codes (which i think was a bogus claim).

of course if it is deteriorated, it must be repaired. that just makes good sense.

tom w

Potential for carbon monoxicide leakage or fire is RED TAG period end of story.

I have seen people get red tagged for bad igniters, I have seen people call because of a water heater issue and get the furnace red tagged; I have seen vice versa.

If you change the water heater you have to change anything attached to it that is not compliant with current code.

In our jurisdiction, plumber's don't red tag anything, the utility company or building inspector does.
The question is whether there was a code violation or not. The simple fact that a vent is behind drywall can't violate a code in and of itself.

There is no grandfathering for safety issues via the National Fire Code; the plumber may not red tag a house or appliance but it is his responsibility to report it.

The manager and a different plumber came out this afternoon. The second plumber confirmed that cutting the connections to the regulator was the easy/lazy way out. The manager apologized profusely for the first plumber - the duct work is B-vent (meets code) and there is heat shielding on both sides of the wall. In a nutshell, about 80% of what the the first plumber said was incorrect.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Glad to hear it turned out ok. I'm surprised the big box store came through.

The manager must have believed in this business saying:

"If a customer is happy, they will tell a friend. If they are unhappy, they will tell ten friends!"

You have told at least ten people here that you were unhappy, but now it's fixed and better. Score one for the 'big box.'

*** A Lot More Than 10! ***
 

At this time - 19 posts and 180 views/friends (We're all friends here, right?)

The Internet - the 21st Century Town-crier! :P
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This is a bit long winded, but some might find it amusing....

I had the same hvac company that replaced the system in my commercial building come out to the house and replace my 28 year old Carrier heat pump. They did a fine job... with the heat pump.

The next day, we got up and there was no hot water, thinking that the electric hot water heater had breathed it's last, I pulled off the cover to test the elements and what not, only to find out it wasn't getting any power, and the breaker wasn't blown. Huh?... what a head scratcher.

In desperation, I pulled off the panel box cover to find that the hot water breaker was plugged in, but the wires were not connected. Wtf? Then, I noticed that the breaker was a worn out used one, and was a 30amp, not the 20 amp that was there the day before. Somehow, the moron that did the hvac work, opened the panel box and simply switched it out, his mistake was forgetting to hook it up. I still can't figure out why, even though he admitted to doing it when confronted by the owner. I can't figure out why he removed the panel box cover, the new unit draws less amps than the old one, and the county code inspector even scratched his head when he came to inspect the hvac job.

so, are you a fire inspector?

your first sentence is true of course, and i never said otherwise.

second sentence is true, and i never said otherwise.

third sentence is true, and i never said otherwise.

his post talked of a power vent, which i have never heard of and sounded bogus to me. as it turns out it was.

tom w

In my school trained and previous profession.....sort of. As you know the NFPA encompasses everything from building code to medical equipment safety standards.

I had a power vent on a tankless water heater. It's fan in the vent that drives the exhaust from combustion out the side of the house rather than letting it naturally rise through a traditional vent. It's wired into the burner so that it comes one when the burner ignites. Power vent doesn't come on, burner wont ignite. (I think)

Too be honest I have no clue what he was talking about but when a plumber makes a safety call you have a few options:

1. Get a second opinion
2. Get it inspected.
3. Don't go cheap on anything that emits carbon monoxide.

well, yeah, some furnaces have those, too. but it is integral to the design. in my experience, anyway.

i have seen them used in high effeciency furnaces where the heat exchanger is extra convoluted and wont draft properly by gravity.

i don't think i have seen any that were add ons.

tom w

come to think of it i had an external power vent on the million btu input boiler in my old office building.

but i don't think i have seen one on a water heater.

i think i am going to go to bed before i get cranky.

tom w

To be honest I have not seen a water heater without a power vent in years.

In my case the power vent was added on to a tankless heater because the original hot water heater had been put in a crawlspace and the condo built around it. When the original hot water heater failed, it could not be removed thru the crawl space access hole and a new one would not fit down the access hole. Hence I went with a tankless, mounted above the washing machine in a closet but since the original vent was on the other side of the house, the new water heater had to be power vented out the sidewall of the house.

but arent they internal?

he was talking of an add on.

tom w

I think it is better called a 'draft inducer' than a power vent.

As you know,this fan's function is to draw combustion air into the burner chamber, and then force the exhaust gas with its products of combustion out the vent.

This 'draft' must be induced by mechanical means because high-efficiency is achieved by keeping this combustion flow in contact with the heat exchanger longer, removing more of the 'heat' and resulting in a much lower temperature of the exhaust gas.

Low temperature gas does not produce as much flow by convection, since the cooler gas is less buoyant and moves slower. Without some means to move this gas along fast enough, the exhaust gases, including the very nasty carbon monoxide, can leak into the surrounding air.

The combustion process of high-efficiency water heaters is quite similar to that of high-efficiency forced-air furnaces.

I agree that adding an external power vent should not be needed for an existing heater, or a new heater unless it includes an external inducer fan as part of the installation kit.

on my old boiler it was used because it had a HUGE masonry chimney and i suspect that it took so long to heat up that the draft was unacceptable.

i dont know if it was just too big from the start of if the original boiler may have been different in design and it worked fine for it.

tom w