Apologies aren't worth the paper they're written on - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #1 01-09-2007, 05:13 PM

Recently, we were "treated" to a nice thread about how the dreaded liberals seem to want to apologize for all sorts of nasty business.

One of my good buds finished up by telling me that oh yes, we need to apologize for Vietnam over and over and over.

I'm not interested in any GD apologies, I'm interested in people GETTING IT.

The Swift Boaters are likely going to go to their grave believing that if only we'd had the will and shoveled more blood and treasure into Vietnam, we'd have left with a glorious victory in hand and had ticker tape parades complete with pretty French girls planting kisses back home.

Likewise, a certain hawk contingent is going to blame whoever puts a stop to our current debacle freely hemmoraging blood and treasure, this debacle in service of some belief that we are going to persuade people with centuries of ingrained suspicion of furriners into letting us be their overlords and teaching them how civilized society works -- this after we displayed the dark underbelly of American depravity and arrogance at Abu Gharib.

Vietnam was utterly lost and this thing is utterly lost.

If a man comes up behind me and beats me with a baseball bat, I'm not interested in any GDed apology, I'm interested that he stop, NOW, and then pay up on the civil suit I'm going to win against him. If by some mirable, a bright burst of contrition flew into him, I'd listen to an apology for his sake, but it's low on my list of concerns, thank you so much just the same.

dynalow · #2 01-09-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I'm not interested in any GD apologies, I'm interested in people GETTING IT.

The Swift Boaters are likely going to go to their grave believing that if only we'd had the will and shoveled more blood and treasure into Vietnam, we'd have left with a glorious victory in hand and had ticker tape parades complete with pretty French girls planting kisses back home.

I'm not sure that the Swifties expressed any strong opinion regarding the failure in Vietnam. I guess if you were to go way back and listen to the videos of John O'Neil and John Kerry on the Dick Cavett Show, you would get a good historical perspective of their "cause".

In recent years (2004) they seemed to me to a one issue group. John Kerry.
They probably feel today like most of the Vietnam era Vets (myself included) do today that the war was fought for nothing.

PaulC · #3 01-09-2007, 05:52 PM

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

A264172 · #4 01-09-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

Being an e-sentiment, free of any woody corpse, your expression still has a chance.

Botnst · #5 01-09-2007, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

I am sorry you are sorry. The angst is killing me.

B

t walgamuth · #6 01-09-2007, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

I'm not sure that the Swifties expressed any strong opinion regarding the failure in Vietnam. I guess if you were to go way back and listen to the videos of John O'Neil and John Kerry on the Dick Cavett Show, you would get a good historical perspective of their "cause".

In recent years (2004) they seemed to me to a one issue group. John Kerry.
They probably feel today like most of the Vietnam era Vets (myself included) do today that the war was fought for nothing.

i am sorry you feel that way, too. but more so i am sorry that it is true.

tom w

Surf-n-Turf · #7 01-09-2007, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Recently, we were "treated" to a nice thread about how the dreaded liberals seem to want to apologize for all sorts of nasty business.

One of my good buds finished up by telling me that oh yes, we need to apologize for Vietnam over and over and over.

I'm not interested in any GD apologies, I'm interested in people GETTING IT.

The Swift Boaters are likely going to go to their grave believing that if only we'd had the will and shoveled more blood and treasure into Vietnam, we'd have left with a glorious victory in hand and had ticker tape parades complete with pretty French girls planting kisses back home.

Likewise, a certain hawk contingent is going to blame whoever puts a stop to our current debacle freely hemmoraging blood and treasure, this debacle in service of some belief that we are going to persuade people with centuries of ingrained suspicion of furriners into letting us be their overlords and teaching them how civilized society works -- this after we displayed the dark underbelly of American depravity and arrogance at Abu Gharib.

Vietnam was utterly lost and this thing is utterly lost.

If a man comes up behind me and beats me with a baseball bat, I'm not interested in any GDed apology, I'm interested that he stop, NOW, and then pay up on the civil suit I'm going to win against him. If by some mirable, a bright burst of contrition flew into him, I'd listen to an apology for his sake, but it's low on my list of concerns, thank you so much just the same.

Boyo, you 'splained youself to a tee with this one. "American depravity". No-one else in the world would commit nasty little pranks on prisoners. Just us crappy Americans. Get beat with a baseball bat--lawsuit. Personally I'd make every effort to snatch the bat from the attacker and friggin kill the bastard.

Comparisons of what we ( US military ) are doing now and Vietnam, are ridiculous. If you can't see that, sorry your not GETTING IT.

True though that there is little to no chance of convincing ALL Iraqis to live in peace and harmony. But we needed to get rid of a maniac. Sitting back and talking about it goes nowhere IMHO.

Botnst · #8 01-09-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

Boyo, you 'splained youself to a tee with this one. "American depravity". No-one else in the world would commit nasty little pranks on prisoners. Just us crappy Americans. Get beat with a baseball bat--lawsuit. Personally I'd make every effort to snatch the bat from the attacker and friggin kill the bastard.

Comparisons of what we ( US military ) are doing now and Vietnam, are ridiculous. If you can't see that, sorry your not GETTING IT.

True though that there is little to no chance of convincing ALL Iraqis to live in peace and harmony. But we needed to get rid of a maniac. Sitting back and talking about it goes nowhere IMHO.

Rocks are difficult to find in Louisiana. We're mostly a state derived from recent alluvial deposition. So when we go somewhere with rocks we always pick up a few. Rarely more that 20# or so. Then we put them in the backyard. Since nobody in my family has an especially artistic bent, we don't know how to select pretty rocks and worse, we can't arrange them in a pleasing manner.

When you tire of this, you are more than welcome to come over and talk to my rocks. Sometimes at night I'll drink a beer in the darkness of my unlit patio. I sure enjoy pissing on those damned rocks. It means nothing to them, but I feel better.

B

mgburg · #9 01-09-2007, 10:06 PM

In order to apologize, the person/group has to be able to be present to hear and/or accept/reject said apology.

Once (Key word here!) the "apology" is given, it's up to the "offended party" to accept/reject the "apology." Nothing more, nothing less.

The apologizer then, having offered his apology, is no longer obligated to do anything further.

As for the "offended" party - if he/she/they are serious about the getting an apology, then they accept it and leave it alone. Or, they reject the apology and it becomes their issue, alone. THEY need to get over it!

Obviously, the folks out there, with an agenda, contrary to better cranial exercises, don't always talk to their folks on the same side of the street...I wouldn't be a "whip" for this Congress' majority - even if they gave me a gold-plated gavel, unlimited expense account ("GAO-Audit-proofed") and a "007" license to kill. I can hardly wait for the fireworks to start over who gets to pick out the TP for the restrooms down the hall from the Speaker's offices.

I wonder who's going to apologize to the spotted-owls for cutting down trees in order to make that TP!

Now we know where all the corn-cobs are going to end up, after the corn's been stripped from them to make E85!

Recycle! Recycle! Recycle! - Apologize! Apologize! Apologize!

LMAO! LMAO! LMAO! (But not wiping it with corn-cobs...I are edumated!)

t walgamuth · #10 01-09-2007, 10:57 PM

i think i will go piss on some rocks.

tom w

cmac2012 · #11 01-10-2007, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surf-n-Turf

Boyo, you 'splained youself to a tee with this one. "American depravity". No-one else in the world would commit nasty little pranks on prisoners. Just us crappy Americans. Get beat with a baseball bat--lawsuit. Personally I'd make every effort to snatch the bat from the attacker and friggin kill the bastard.

Comparisons of what we ( US military ) are doing now and Vietnam, are ridiculous. If you can't see that, sorry your not GETTING IT.

True though that there is little to no chance of convincing ALL Iraqis to live in peace and harmony. But we needed to get rid of a maniac. Sitting back and talking about it goes nowhere IMHO.

I'm sure if I had a choice, I'd rather be stacked up naked with a bunch of guys I didn't know than have my fingers cut off one by one with further appendages to follow.

None of those comparisons matter one whit to the broader Middle East who we, according to the official line, hoped would line up in the democratic spirit. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm sure a much worse taste in Arab mouths. I'm continually amazed at the attempts here to try to dismiss and downplay that. Some of our guys over there got what happened, maybe because they experienced the change in climate afterwards. I've heard servicemen refer to the night shift, Graner's boys, as the knuckleheads who lost the war.

Dude, it was a metaphor. Of course I'd try to grab the bat and bean the guy. Then again, I might look him over and figure if I could dig some actual payback out of him.

The parallels tween now and Nam are obvious. We think we perceive a threat and use massive overkill to wipe it out. Only it doesn't get wiped out. Before the war, a relatively small number of Arabs really hated out guts. That number has grown far more than the number of bad guys we've wiped out, IMO.

cmac2012 · #12 01-10-2007, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Rocks are difficult to find in Louisiana. We're mostly a state derived from recent alluvial deposition. So when we go somewhere with rocks we always pick up a few. Rarely more that 20# or so. Then we put them in the backyard. Since nobody in my family has an especially artistic bent, we don't know how to select pretty rocks and worse, we can't arrange them in a pleasing manner.

When you tire of this, you are more than welcome to come over and talk to my rocks. Sometimes at night I'll drink a beer in the darkness of my unlit patio. I sure enjoy pissing on those damned rocks. It means nothing to them, but I feel better.

Believe it or not, I get tired of talking about it. Then I hear O'Reilly talking about how liberals "don't want America to win in Iraq." He's just one blowhard but he's not the top rated cable news/opinion show by accident.

Oh yeah, we're gonna win all right. 95% of the Iraqis are going to slap themselves on the forehead tomorrow and say, "What was I thinking? Please, Mr. American, show us how to be like you...."

t walgamuth · #13 01-10-2007, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I'm sure if I had a choice, I'd rather be stacked up naked with a bunch of guys I didn't know than have my fingers cut off one by one with further appendages to follow.

None of those comparisons matter one whit to the broader Middle East who we, according to the official line, hoped would line up in the democratic spirit. It left a bad taste in my mouth and I'm sure a much worse taste in Arab mouths. I'm continually amazed at the attempts here to try to dismiss and downplay that. Some of our guys over there got what happened, maybe because they experienced the change in climate afterwards. I've heard servicemen refer to the night shift, Graner's boys, as the knuckleheads who lost the war.

Dude, it was a metaphor. Of course I'd try to grab the bat and bean the guy. Then again, I might look him over and figure if I could dig some actual payback out of him.

The parallels tween now and Nam are obvious. We think we perceive a threat and use massive overkill to wipe it out. Only it doesn't get wiped out. Before the war, a relatively small number of Arabs really hated out guts. That number has grown far more than the number of bad guys we've wiped out, IMO.

now you're talking.

tom w

t walgamuth · #14 01-10-2007, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Believe it or not, I get tired of talking about it. Then I hear O'Reilly talking about how liberals "don't want America to win in Iraq." He's just one blowhard but he's not the top rated cable news/opinion show by accident.

Oh yeah, we're gonna win all right. 95% of the Iraqis are going to slap themselves on the forehead tomorrow and say, "What was I thinking? Please, Mr. American, show us how to be like you...."

true again.

tom w

LaRondo · #15 01-10-2007, 06:58 AM

Just today it struck me; and again, I'm sure I will get one hell of heat for it:

Maybe, sending American troops into other parts of the world is just another way of socializing.

Sounds reasonable enough, as an apology.