Daimler Open to Partial Sale of Chrysler - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Ken300D · #16 02-15-2007, 12:45 PM

This would be an opportunity for the Chinese to enter the US market.

Then they could embed a self-destruct sequence into the ECU and disable the American economy by remote control........

Ken300D

raymr · #17 02-15-2007, 03:11 PM

That would leave Chrysler pretty much where it was 25 years ago, only this time with no government bailout and no Lee Iacocca. I'm not even sure if they have any military contracts.

jlomon · #18 02-15-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al76slc

[I][COLOR="Blue"]Has anybody seen any benefits from the merger show up in any MB vehicles?
Or Chrysler's, for that matter, except the Crossfire?

As a few people have pointed out, the benefits that Chrysler has seen so far is the ability to quickly and cheaply engineer a RWD platform for the first time since 1982. The 300/Magnum/Charger is largely drawn from the underpinnings of the W210 and the 5 speed automatic transmission is the 722.6. This car has been quite a winner for Chrysler, both from a sales point of view and an image point of view. I don't think they would have got it to market as fast or as inexpensively if they had to do it all on their own. The result wouldn't have been as refined, either. Yes, the Crossfire was an entire first generation SLK underneath, but it wasn't ever going to sell in large enough numbers to make a difference.

The benefit to MB will take longer to realize, but it will be huge, because they will be able to ammortize the development costs for new vehicles over a much longer period of time. When MB replaces technology (the 7 speed auto replacing the 5 speed is a perfect example) it can be passed down to Chrysler at zero development cost where it will be sold in huge quantities. Chrysler gets a better engineered product than they could have made at no cost, and the best part is that it will be dead reliable because by the time Chrysler gets the product all the bugs will long be worked out. So you have reduced development costs, free tooling, and reduced warranty cost, all in a product that would be better engineered than a comparable Ford or GM. This should put Chrysler in a league of its own 10-15 years after the merger. Not quite Toyota/Honda territory, but definitely better than Ford/GM.

This benefit, if realized, could allow MB to move back towards the type of development costs they were prepared to spend before the accountants took over (pre W202). DCX just needs to have the stones to carry out this vision. They've already suffered so much financially that it would be a real shame to cut and run when they are close to seeing the benefits trickle down.

Larry Delor · #19 02-15-2007, 05:01 PM

Could this just be posturing on DCX's part to keep the UAW from protesting too much over the lay-offs?

GottaDiesel · #20 02-15-2007, 05:05 PM

Larry,

I would say yes and no.

Yes. In the short term. But in the long term, Benz needs to distance itself (brand wise) from Chy. or continue the down-ward trend.

Hatterasguy · #21 02-15-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

As a few people have pointed out, the benefits that Chrysler has seen so far is the ability to quickly and cheaply engineer a RWD platform for the first time since 1982. The 300/Magnum/Charger is largely drawn from the underpinnings of the W210 and the 5 speed automatic transmission is the 722.6. This car has been quite a winner for Chrysler, both from a sales point of view and an image point of view. I don't think they would have got it to market as fast or as inexpensively if they had to do it all on their own. The result wouldn't have been as refined, either. Yes, the Crossfire was an entire first generation SLK underneath, but it wasn't ever going to sell in large enough numbers to make a difference.

The benefit to MB will take longer to realize, but it will be huge, because they will be able to ammortize the development costs for new vehicles over a much longer period of time. When MB replaces technology (the 7 speed auto replacing the 5 speed is a perfect example) it can be passed down to Chrysler at zero development cost where it will be sold in huge quantities. Chrysler gets a better engineered product than they could have made at no cost, and the best part is that it will be dead reliable because by the time Chrysler gets the product all the bugs will long be worked out. So you have reduced development costs, free tooling, and reduced warranty cost, all in a product that would be better engineered than a comparable Ford or GM. This should put Chrysler in a league of its own 10-15 years after the merger. Not quite Toyota/Honda territory, but definitely better than Ford/GM.

This benefit, if realized, could allow MB to move back towards the type of development costs they were prepared to spend before the accountants took over (pre W202). DCX just needs to have the stones to carry out this vision. They've already suffered so much financially that it would be a real shame to cut and run when they are close to seeing the benefits trickle down.

Excellent assesment! Thats exactly the way I see it to. If they can make it work it will be a very good thing not only for Chrysler but Mercedes as well. If Mercedes knows they can sell a transmission for example, for 6 years in there products then move it to Chrysler for another 4-5 to sell in volume thats incredible! That means they can afford to spend a lot in R&D because the life span is so long, and more so with volume in the last couple of years the profits are huge!

al76slc · #22 02-15-2007, 06:36 PM

I read an entire book on the merger and didn't get an explanation for the merger as clear as JLOMON'S 3 paragraphs.

On the other hand, I'm wondering if MB had thought it through that well. It still may have been an enormous, and expensive, ego trip.

In any event, it's now been almost 9 years, and the results don't seem to be showing up.

At the same time, if Chrysler is spun off, MB will have caused a large number of Chrylser managers to have left, which may or may not have been a good thing (depending on your opinion of Chrysler's management pre-takeover).

t walgamuth · #23 02-15-2007, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Delor

Could this just be posturing on DCX's part to keep the UAW from protesting too much over the lay-offs?

yes. and some truth to it too.

but yes very good chance it is opening of negotiations.

tom w

t walgamuth · #24 02-15-2007, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

As a few people have pointed out, the benefits that Chrysler has seen so far is the ability to quickly and cheaply engineer a RWD platform for the first time since 1982. The 300/Magnum/Charger is largely drawn from the underpinnings of the W210 and the 5 speed automatic transmission is the 722.6. This car has been quite a winner for Chrysler, both from a sales point of view and an image point of view. I don't think they would have got it to market as fast or as inexpensively if they had to do it all on their own. The result wouldn't have been as refined, either. Yes, the Crossfire was an entire first generation SLK underneath, but it wasn't ever going to sell in large enough numbers to make a difference.

The benefit to MB will take longer to realize, but it will be huge, because they will be able to ammortize the development costs for new vehicles over a much longer period of time. When MB replaces technology (the 7 speed auto replacing the 5 speed is a perfect example) it can be passed down to Chrysler at zero development cost where it will be sold in huge quantities. Chrysler gets a better engineered product than they could have made at no cost, and the best part is that it will be dead reliable because by the time Chrysler gets the product all the bugs will long be worked out. So you have reduced development costs, free tooling, and reduced warranty cost, all in a product that would be better engineered than a comparable Ford or GM. This should put Chrysler in a league of its own 10-15 years after the merger. Not quite Toyota/Honda territory, but definitely better than Ford/GM.

This benefit, if realized, could allow MB to move back towards the type of development costs they were prepared to spend before the accountants took over (pre W202). DCX just needs to have the stones to carry out this vision. They've already suffered so much financially that it would be a real shame to cut and run when they are close to seeing the benefits trickle down.

excellent points. i have not seen it explained this way. it is obvious now that i see it. and i wonder why i never noticed it myself.

tom w

#25 02-15-2007, 07:07 PM

Mercedes is still recovering from years of pathetic quality for a premium grade product. Chrysler brought in some serious cash for a number of years while M-B was bleeding. What about SMART? It has been a cash hole, but you do not hear about selling it. I believe that there are too many arrogant @$#@ calling to dump Chrysler. Hey, if you play the market part of the risk you take is LOSING!!!

raymr · #26 02-15-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

As a few people have pointed out, the benefits that Chrysler has seen so far is the ability to quickly and cheaply engineer a RWD platform for the first time since 1982. The 300/Magnum/Charger is largely drawn from the underpinnings of the W210 and the 5 speed automatic transmission is the 722.6. This car has been quite a winner for Chrysler, both from a sales point of view and an image point of view. I don't think they would have got it to market as fast or as inexpensively if they had to do it all on their own. The result wouldn't have been as refined, either. Yes, the Crossfire was an entire first generation SLK underneath, but it wasn't ever going to sell in large enough numbers to make a difference.

The benefit to MB will take longer to realize, but it will be huge, because they will be able to ammortize the development costs for new vehicles over a much longer period of time. When MB replaces technology (the 7 speed auto replacing the 5 speed is a perfect example) it can be passed down to Chrysler at zero development cost where it will be sold in huge quantities. Chrysler gets a better engineered product than they could have made at no cost, and the best part is that it will be dead reliable because by the time Chrysler gets the product all the bugs will long be worked out. So you have reduced development costs, free tooling, and reduced warranty cost, all in a product that would be better engineered than a comparable Ford or GM. This should put Chrysler in a league of its own 10-15 years after the merger. Not quite Toyota/Honda territory, but definitely better than Ford/GM.

This benefit, if realized, could allow MB to move back towards the type of development costs they were prepared to spend before the accountants took over (pre W202). DCX just needs to have the stones to carry out this vision. They've already suffered so much financially that it would be a real shame to cut and run when they are close to seeing the benefits trickle down.

Thats all fine, but if Chrysler wants 2nd hand goods they can just go out and buy the old tooling and dies from anybody. Who's to say BMW doesn't have a better suspension system, or Toyota a better transmission? This arrangement puts Chrysler permanently into a poor sibling status. Getting leftovers isn't a good reason to be married.

450slcguy · #27 02-15-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

i dont get the little car/suv that is replacing the neon though (caliper?).

tom w

I've driven several Calibers in the last week. Visually not a bad looking car, inside and out. The base price for the AWD R/T hovers around 20k. What turned me off was the CVT2 auto transmission. Instead of feeing gear shifts as accustomed too, I felt hesitation in acceleration similar to a slipping auto transmission. It just felt very mushy in performance and feel. The new 2.4 world engine was loud and coupled with the CVT2 transmission, I did't like the way it drove at all. If they would have put in a "normal" 4 speed auto, perhaps it would have been a more confident performing vehicle. They do offer the 5 speed manual as standard equiptment, that might be the way to go with this vehicle but I didn't drive one. I'm pretty sure most people who drive the Caliber auto will be disappointed, it just doesn't inspire the confidence found in a traditional firm shifting auto transmission.

t walgamuth · #28 02-15-2007, 09:33 PM

i liked the looks of the neon but the caliper.....ouch!

tom w

hk20000 · #29 02-16-2007, 02:55 AM

I have driven a few CVT gearboxes before, such as Honda Fit in Japan, Nissan Versa here, and I would expect no less sluggishness from a CVT on a caliber.

the gearbox has to constantly "think" what ratio it wants to be in and when you want full throttle the revs just hit the maximum horsepower point and stay there, speed increases in a strange sensation....

but I wouldn't think anyone who has a tad knowledge of a CVT would be worried about the performance of the Caliber - its 2.4L engine provides more than enough torque for grocery shopping and that CVT just allows fuel economy to be that much better.

a normal daily drive with a CVT equipped vehicle is the same as any automatic vehicle minus the jerk between gears..... So those who don't know their car mechanics wouldn't be bothered by how the car goes either.

IMO CVT is best mated to a lazy big engine that makes best power at low revs so that you can always have the best power without the ear-bleeding exhaust drone you'd get in a hi-strung 4cyl + CVT combination.

t walgamuth · #30 02-16-2007, 06:20 AM

dang!

now i have to go test drive one of those ugly little ba$tards just so i can experience the cvt!

seriously.

i have always wondered about them.

not too many DAF s around here.

tom w