Has the right wing view of abortion gone totally loony?

[kerry]

I was teaching an Ethics class today and a group of conservative students were strongly arguing the following position on abortion:

A woman with a known medical condition which will cause her death if she gets pregnant, is raped and becomes pregnant. It is morally impermissible for her to get an abortion, even if it means she will die, because abortion is always wrong.

Has anyone else heard anyone argue this position on abortion? It seems absurd because of the idea that self-defense would permit abortion in these circumstances even for the most right wing thinkers I have ever come across before today.

Did I just run into a strange anomaly or has there been a much further move to the right on the question of abortion of which I am unaware? What's next, imprison the woman until she gives birth then execute her for having illicit sex?

[AustinsCE]

Funny stuff. They get these ideas locked in and defend them to the death, no matter the argument. Create a new belief to justify the notion that abortion is bad. They don't really subscribe to it, everyones just FOS. Kids are pampered and caged, no concept of reality. Then they turn into ignorant, naive adults. So they have neither experience nor guidance. Weird, like the world is flat sort of thing going on.

[Kuan]

That's as bad as stoning her to death. Different method, same result.

[Emmerich]

If you question the anti-abortion people, and ask them what their reason for being that way is, they usually say something to the effect "every life is sacred". Fine. Then ask them if an abortion is okay in cases of rape or incest. Most (not all) will say yes. Ditto for health reasons.

I can respect (but not agree with) the ones that say under no circumstances should it be allowed. At least they are sticking to their guns. The others have just drawn their line slightly different than mine.

I know a lot of guys who claim an abortion should never occur, but knowing these guys, if their teenage daughter was raped, they would be the first ones at the clinic....

[suginami]

I don't know if there's been a shift further to the right among the right wing of the Republican Party, but I wouldn't be surprised. The same is true of the left, though. Nearly every democrat in congress voted against the recent bill that would've banned partial birth abortions.

I do remember one of my professors in college who was a rabbi told us that in the Hebrew Bible, maybe the Torah (I don't remember), the life of the mother takes precedence over nascent life, making it permissible to abort the fetus to protect the life of the mother.

[Matt L]

You don't have to be far left to have been against that bill. It was prohibiting a particular, and very seldom used medical procedure. The name "partial birth" was tacked onto it to make it sound particularly heinous, but it's no worse than other late-term procedures.

The main reasons to be against that bill were: it contained no exception for the health or even life of the mother; it takes the decision of the particular method out of the hands of the mother and her doctor; it is a very rare procedure, only used when other methods are inappropriate.

That ban will not prevent a single abortion.

[Austin85]

Reminds me of the saying;

"Too many christians, not enough lions.."


If a woman who is in this situation, were to make the call for herself, not some ********* religious right pricks, and she decided to have the child & know she would certainly die, she woud be committing herself to die, and would also be committing a sin.

[Ara T.]

Seems like if babies are valued so much then they would want the mother to live instead, since they are able to produce more babies instead of dying.
Secondly, why are new lives so valued? This planet is overpopulated as it is.

[cmac2012]

Originally Posted by Emmerich

If you question the anti-abortion people, and ask them what their reason for being that way is, they usually say something to the effect "every life is sacred". Fine. Then ask them if an abortion is okay in cases of rape or incest. Most (not all) will say yes. Ditto for health reasons.

I can respect (but not agree with) the ones that say under no circumstances should it be allowed. At least they are sticking to their guns. The others have just drawn their line slightly different than mine.

I know a lot of guys who claim an abortion should never occur, but knowing these guys, if their teenage daughter was raped, they would be the first ones at the clinic....

Under the scenario that Kerry outlined in the OP, aborting the fetus would be in keeping with the notion that every life is sacred. The woman's parents and other loved ones would not respond well to the notion that this woman, in whom they have invested much time, effort, and emotional energy, is worth less than the fetus spawned by a rapist, a fetus that would not survive its mother's death to boot.

Fanatics such as those he spoke of are hard to take.

[G-Benz]

The truth is, if males were the ones who had to bear children, the laws would be hypocritically in favor of the childbearer!

[Kuan]

I don't like the way the question is framed. I don't like the idea of permission.

I think it's a matter of integrity and character to try your best no matter what, even if you know your life is in danger. I don't believe in giving up, and I will die trying to save a friend's life if I have to. I don't need anyone's permission.

[Medmech]

Originally Posted by Matt L

You don't have to be far left to have been against that bill. It was prohibiting a particular, and very seldom used medical procedure. The name "partial birth" was tacked onto it to make it sound particularly heinous, but it's no worse than other late-term procedures.

The main reasons to be against that bill were: it contained no exception for the health or even life of the mother; it takes the decision of the particular method out of the hands of the mother and her doctor; it is a very rare procedure, only used when other methods are inappropriate.

That ban will not prevent a single abortion.

15,000 late term abortions a year is seldom? Click on this link if you have the balls.
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&hl=en&rls=GGGL%2CGGGL%3A2006-24%2CGGGL%3Aen&q=partial+birth+abortion

[Medmech]

Originally Posted by [LEFT

kerry[/LEFT]

edwards

;1509944]I was teaching an Ethics class today and a group of conservative students were strongly arguing the following position on abortion:

A woman with a known medical condition which will cause her death if she gets pregnant, is raped and becomes pregnant. It is morally impermissible for her to get an abortion, even if it means she will die, because abortion is always wrong.

Has anyone else heard anyone argue this position on abortion? It seems absurd because of the idea that self-defense would permit abortion in these circumstances even for the most right wing thinkers I have ever come across before today.

Did I just run into a strange anomaly or has there been a much further move to the right on the question of abortion of which I am unaware? What's next, imprison the woman until she gives birth then execute her for having illicit sex?

Doubtful and if you had a group my guess is they were taking a position more for the sake of conversation.

Did you referee the discussion or participate?

[kerry]

Originally Posted by kookookachoo

Doubtful and if you had a group my guess is they were taking a position more for the sake of conversation.

Did you referee the discussion or participate?

Definitely not taking the position for the sake of conversation. True Believers.

I was referring a discussion but when that position came up, the class exploded, destroying any possibility of thoughtful interaction. There's a good chance it ruined for good, what was an engaging class up to that point.

[Honus]

Originally Posted by Emmerich

...I can respect (but not agree with) the ones that say under no circumstances should it be allowed. At least they are sticking to their guns. The others have just drawn their line slightly different than mine...

Exactly right, IMHO.