Interesting book, that. Says a lot for the discussion at hand.

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

That is exactly the point I was trying to make - You don't see how that relates to the issue of abortion?

I doubt that was in the horribly liberal Bay area. A couple of years ago, I was going across the Bay Bridge and a motorcyclist passed me (and a bunch of other cars) doing the driving between cars bit that was supposed to be for stop and go traffic only if I'm not mistaken, so that air cooled engines don't overheat.

Plenty of bikers here do it at general traffic speeds up to 40 mph. I hate that ****. Suddenly some guy is 16 inches from your door passing you at 55 mph while you're doing 35 in heavy traffic.

Anyway, this character was doing a lot of that. About 10 - 15 minutes later, traffic had slowed appreciably and I found out why. The motorcyclist lay motionless in the road with about 8 people standing around him looking forlorn and helpless. He looked dead.

But your point is well taken -- it can be a cold world all right, even in the USA.

__________________
Te futueo et caballum tuum

1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

In some ways yes, in some ways no.

Your situation suggested an always life or death outcome.

The abortion issue should ideally, and morally (backed up by scientific evidence) be a life/life(s) outcome.

__________________
-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

For starters, no baby could survive by itself. They are totally dependant on the mother/or others for survival.

That said, there's no difference in that respect to a baby born natural/c-section and that baby being pulled out halfway and then chopped up.

Why can't the baby be pulled out the rest of the way?

My view, is that's it murder. You've taken away the right of that baby of it's life.

__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

They have no effing right to judge me and no right to tell me what choices I can make. They can kiss my white a$$. The main reason I am no longer registered as a conservative. The mindless religios minions have taken over.

I agree. It seems to run afoul of the "Life" part of the right to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". Which, by the way, is from that most religious of texts; The Declaration of Independence.

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

Sounds similar to Susan Smith's viewpoint.

BTW, where does one register as a conservative?

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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone

In NYS I believe that would be with the Conservative Party.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

The issue is whether one has the same right to life when that right depends on another individual's body. For instance do conjoined twins have exactly the same right to life as non-conjoined people. What if the separation operation involves greater risk to one of the conjoined than the other?

Obviously the Declaration did not imply that every human being had exactly the same rights since slavery seemed consistent with its liberty claim to the people who wrote it.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I can't imagine that there is a political party that would actually think they have the right to tell a person, any person -- man or woman, what they can do with their body. But apparently, there are.

Suicide is against the law.

Recreational drug use is against the law.

Prostitution (in most places) is against the law.

Selling organs is against the law.

I guess it should also be legal to sell yourself into slavery if you chose to do it using your own freewill?

The fundamental principle of capitalism, in short.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Rental, not ownership.