6 people die trying to save a life not worth saving - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BENZ-LGB · #16 06-09-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon

well.. 6 more organ donors if you want to try to be optimistic about it

its sad though..

Have you ever seen what bodies look like after a plane crash? No organs left to harvest.

I don't think that these people died in vain. They died while pursuing a worthy goal -- saving another life.

But I do agree that it seems horribly unfair that 6 people should die trying to get organs for a man who did not care enough about his own lungs to stop smoking.

Didn't David Crosby get a new liver after burning his own with booze and drugs?

Seems unfair.

BENZ-LGB · #17 06-09-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Does your opinion only go with smokers? What about over-eaters? What about over-drinkers? What about a guy who hurts himself skydiving or bungee jumping? What about somebody who gets hurt racing (career)? Should organs be only for people who in no way step out of line?

Life was not, is not and will not ever be fair. Live with it or check out. The choice is yours.

None of the above, knowing the risk inherent in their chosen lifestyles, deserves a second chance over someone, who through no fault of his own, has an illness thar requires an organ transplant.

Designo_E320 · #18 06-09-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Have you ever seen what bodies look like after a plane crash? No organs left to harvest.

The most you can do or the only use for those body parts would be to try to makefertilizer out of 'em. (No disrespect to the actual dead intended)

Designo_E320 · #19 06-09-2007, 03:23 PM

"6 people die trying to save a life not worth saving"

I believe that EVERY life is worth saving unless it the life of a person that has taken the life of another person.

aklim · #20 06-09-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

None of the above, knowing the risk inherent in their chosen lifestyles, deserves a second chance over someone, who through no fault of his own, has an illness thar requires an organ transplant.

If that were applied like I said and we actually give people second chances because they have a not at fault illness or accident we would have tons of organs to spare. Wifey works in a hospital. It might not be representative of all hospitals but from what we can see, most of the people she treats are NOT sudden illness that came out of nowheres and accidents. One of the patients recently was healthy and fit, 45 yo, etc, etc and needed knee replacement. Looking back at his file years ago, he was 200# overweight. Ya think that might have something to do with it? If we track it back far enough, you might find all sorts of things in "good" people that will show they did some bad things and might not be deserving as you speak of.

What I am trying to say is there are few people who are in trouble thru "no fault of their own". Usually, there is something in their background that they have done to cause the problem or exacerbated the problem that has come back to bite them from years ago.

Designo_E320 · #21 06-09-2007, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If that were applied like I said and we actually give people second chances because they have a not at fault illness or accident we would have tons of organs to spare. Wifey works in a hospital. It might not be representative of all hospitals but from what we can see, most of the people she treats are NOT sudden illness that came out of nowheres and accidents. One of the patients recently was healthy and fit, 45 yo, etc, etc and needed knee replacement. Looking back at his file years ago, he was 200# overweight. Ya think that might have something to do with it? If we track it back far enough, you might find all sorts of things in "good" people that will show they did some bad things and might not be deserving as you speak of.

What I am trying to say is there are few people who are in trouble thru "no fault of their own". Usually, there is something in their background that they have done to cause the problem or exacerbated the problem that has come back to bite them from years ago.

They also may "have been lost" in the past but later 'found the way".
I have know people who were over weight and also has undiagnosed diabetes. After the diagnosis, they worked so hard to correct it and loose the weight, that many had to be take off the pills as they had been cured! (diabetes type II)

aklim · #22 06-09-2007, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Designo_E320

They also may "have been lost" in the past but later 'found the way".

So? Damage might already have been done. Point is, the current condition might be a result of what they have done. So what if you have slimmed down and eaten right? You have weakened your heart and have diabetes. Yes, it is good that you haven't done anything to make it worse but the fact is that you, at this point, are NOT a victim of circumstances.

I cheated on my wife in the past. Now I have seen the light and stopped after both of us having herpes. Will the herpes go away because I see the light now? I didn't but hypothetically.

Brian Carlton · #23 06-09-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

What I am trying to say is there are few people who are in trouble thru "no fault of their own". Usually, there is something in their background that they have done to cause the problem or exacerbated the problem that has come back to bite them from years ago.

Maybe you can check the background of Lance Armstrong and see if you can find the "fault of his own" making that resulted in cancer.

There are tens of thousands of people like him, but, you're more than welcome to prove your case against each of them.........if you can.

Designo_E320 · #24 06-09-2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So? Damage might already have been done. Point is, the current condition might be a result of what they have done. So what if you have slimmed down and eaten right? You have weakened your heart and have diabetes. Yes, it is good that you haven't done anything to make it worse but the fact is that you, at this point, are NOT a victim of circumstances.

I cheated on my wife in the past. Now I have seen the light and stopped after both of us having herpes. Will the herpes go away because I see the light now? I didn't but hypothetically.

What you fail to see is that not doing anything about it will have even harsher consequences. Yes you are right that a little damage has already been done and it will manifest in one form or another at a later time BUT.........
The consequences will be a lot less than if a person hadn't seen the light and changed his ways.
Example: 1. having Diabetes and not doing anything about it will cause you to go into coma and if you are lucky and don't go into coma then you will definitely loose your kidneys and/or go blind or many polyneuropathies and have anesthesia of the lower limb with will cause you to get sores on your feet and legs and eventually get gangrene cause you to loose the leg through amputation. All this can occur at a fairly young age.
NOW, if you changed your habits early on, you can avoid blindness, amputations, dialysis, etc and may end up dying with a heart attack later on in life without a warning and may live a pretty healthy life. Yes the heart attack may have been due to the past CONTROLLED diabetes but having a silent myocardial infarction (Heart Attack without pain) is something I would prefer over the former.

EXAMPLE 2: You cheated on your wife but then you saw the light and stopped cheating on her and both of you have herpes. BE THANKFULL THAT YOU ONLY SAW THE LIGHT AND ONLY HAVE HERPES. In contrast, if you hadn't seen the light and continued then herpes would have been the least of your problems as you may have:
A) Lost your wife (divorce)
B) Both gotten Hepatitis B, C, D, E
C) Both may have gotten HIV and AIDS, etc.
So it was still good that you got herpes and saw the light and changed your ways and only have to live with herpes. You at least tried to better yourself right?
(P.S. I know you don't have herpes)

So, the damage may already have been done but it can still be limited by change of behavior and lifestyle modification.

aklim · #25 06-09-2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Maybe you can check the background of Lance Armstrong and see if you can find the "fault of his own" making that resulted in cancer.

There are tens of thousands of people like him, but, you're more than welcome to prove your case against each of them.........if you can.

Like I said, maybe it applies only to the hospitals in Madison, WI where people have a past that has caused wholly or partly the condition they are suffering from. This is in discussion with other MDs, NPs, and RNs that I have found this out. Maybe it doesn't apply in your neck of the woods. Yes, there are tens of thousands of Lance Armstrongs. However, there are even more Citizen Joes who have contributed and/or caused the current condition they are in by their past.

aklim · #26 06-09-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Designo_E320

So, the damage may already have been done but it can still be limited by change of behavior and lifestyle modification.

I partially agree with that. Change of behavior and lifestyle MIGHT, not always will, limit the damage that has been done. What I am saying is that while that is true, the fact still remains that it was their yesterday's actions that are coming back to haunt them today and that they are NOT innocent when it comes to determining guilt.

Yes, I stopped whoring around and my illness is only herpes. If I go on whoring around, it could be much more and worse. True. However, that I stopped whoring around for the last 5 years, in no way changes the fact that I got herpes thru MY OWN FAULT. My point is that, IMO, there are few people that got into trouble thru no fault of their own as opposed to many more who did something yesterday that caused today's problem.

Designo_E320 · #27 06-09-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I partially agree with that. Change of behavior and lifestyle MIGHT, not always will, limit the damage that has been done. What I am saying is that while that is true, the fact still remains that it was their yesterday's actions that are coming back to haunt them today and that they are NOT innocent when it comes to determining guilt.

Yes, I stopped whoring around and my illness is only herpes. If I go on whoring around, it could be much more and worse. True. However, that I stopped whoring around for the last 5 years, in no way changes the fact that I got herpes thru MY OWN FAULT. My point is that, IMO, there are few people that got into trouble thru no fault of their own as opposed to many more who did something yesterday that caused today's problem.

Ahhh but my friend, we are all human and human will make mistakes. And yes, I agree 100% with you that everything can be pretty much traced back to a mistake on out part. Some people die because of somebody else's mistake (drunk driving), some people will get something that they were bound to get due to genetics, IE ovarian and breast cancer.

raymr · #28 06-09-2007, 04:54 PM

A few years ago, I was trying to revive some nearly dead neglected lawn by the end of our driveway. As I was watering the thin barely green wisps of what I think was grass, an old man walked by. He looked down, and then looked at me and said 'Where there is life, there is hope'. Indeed!

I used those word as my dad lived his last few months earlier this year. He had terminal mesothelomia (lung cancer from asbestos) and we all knew what was coming. But remaining positive and hopeful in the face of impending death made our time with him that much more enjoyable. He decided on chemo even though he knew it wouldn't make much difference. When you are in that situation, you try, even if it has a 1:1,000,000 chance of success. The logical mind might ask - why waste money and resources on someone who is on the wrong side of the statistics sheet?

It's the hope thing.

aklim · #29 06-09-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Designo_E320

Ahhh but my friend, we are all human and human will make mistakes. And yes, I agree 100% with you that everything can be pretty much traced back to a mistake on out part.

Some people die because of somebody else's mistake (drunk driving), some people will get something that they were bound to get due to genetics, IE ovarian and breast cancer.

With that in mind, how would you go about deciding who is more deserving and who is less? Problem is we have all made mistakes, are making mistakes and will make some more. That is why I am having trouble saying that the smoker doesn't deserve a 2nd chance as much as this other guy or the lady, etc, etc.

Seen enough of that when I was a volunteer manager at the Ronald McDonald house. You get 2 idiots who are predisposed to spinal bifada and yet they go out and have a kid. Well, the kid now has SB.

What a shocker.

But hey. The parents are fine. The kid has so many years to live in a painful world.

aklim · #30 06-09-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

The logical mind might ask - why waste money and resources on someone who is on the wrong side of the statistics sheet?

It's the hope thing.

I wouldn't if it were me. Man's wants are many. However, his resources are always going to be limited. Therefore, I would spend money on those who are on the right side before I spend it on the wrong side. Whatever is leftover can be tossed to the other side.

Also might be a fear of dying thing.