6 people die trying to save a life not worth saving - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #31 06-09-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Maybe you can check the background of Lance Armstrong and see if you can find the "fault of his own" making that resulted in cancer.

There are tens of thousands of people like him, but, you're more than welcome to prove your case against each of them.........if you can.

It just struck me funny. For a guy who isn't at all specific, you are suddenly getting very specific. Well, to tell you the truth, I don't have those answers. However, I do know that many others do. Why do you think doctors recommend we spend all sorts of money on preventative medicine? After all, if most are "not my fault" issues, preventative wouldn't be worthwhile, would it? For instance, why does medicare or is it medicaid that covers stomach banding? Well, today the patient is fine. Tomorrow, he might develop other conditions. But if those conditions he might develop are "not my fault" conditions, why spend money on gastric bypasses and what not? Why prevent it when most of the illinesses are not "fault of his own"?

Designo_E320 · #32 06-09-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

With that in mind, how would you go about deciding who is more deserving and who is less? Problem is we have all made mistakes, are making mistakes and will make some more. That is why I am having trouble saying that the smoker doesn't deserve a 2nd chance as much as this other guy or the lady, etc, etc.

Seen enough of that when I was a volunteer manager at the Ronald McDonald house. You get 2 idiots who are predisposed to spinal bifada and yet they go out and have a kid. Well, the kid now has SB.

What a shocker.

But hey. The parents are fine. The kid has so many years to live in a painful world.

Actually the most deserving is the guy who is about to croak the first in other words, the most deserving is the person who has the least amount of time left. This is how the national organ donation match works also.

aklim · #33 06-09-2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Designo_E320

Actually the most deserving is the guy who is about to croak the first in other words, the most deserving is the person who has the least amount of time left. This is how the national organ donation match works also.

That's my point. It is very difficult to find an organ receipient that has not caused the problem himself. So, what is the point of that criteria? That is why I agree with you that we should use the method you and the donation match use. Or we can use the blame game in which case, few, if any will get an organ.

Designo_E320 · #34 06-09-2007, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

That's my point. It is very difficult to find an organ receipient that has not caused the problem himself. So, what is the point of that criteria? That is why I agree with you that we should use the method you and the donation match use. Or we can use the blame game in which case, few, if any will get an organ.

Vote for stem cell research and we will have more organs than we will know what to do with! Again we can GLADLY blame the lack of SCC on BUSH, the man with a constipated Brain!

aklim · #35 06-09-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Designo_E320

Vote for stem cell research and we will have more organs than we will know what to do with!

Again we can GLADLY blame the lack of SCC on BUSH, the man with a constipated Brain!

I do. And Congress. Some things I agree with as far as Bush and some I disagree. His handling of the mexican refugee issue and stem cell research, I don't agree with.

Designo_E320 · #36 06-09-2007, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I do. And Congress. Some things I agree with as far as Bush and some I disagree. His handling of the mexican refugee issue and stem cell research, I don't agree with.

Glad we can agree on some stuff

Oh another thing we can agre on is MERCEDES

aklim · #37 06-09-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Designo_E320

Glad we can agree on some stuff

Oh another thing we can agre on is MERCEDES

The girl or the car?

I see we both have W210 cars. What year is yours?

Designo_E320 · #38 06-09-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

The girl or the car?

I see we both have W210 cars. What year is yours?

BOTH!
Mine is a 2000 E320 Designo.

Brian Carlton · #39 06-10-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Like I said, maybe it applies only to the hospitals in Madison, WI where people have a past that has caused wholly or partly the condition they are suffering from. This is in discussion with other MDs, NPs, and RNs that I have found this out. Maybe it doesn't apply in your neck of the woods. Yes, there are tens of thousands of Lance Armstrongs. However, there are even more Citizen Joes who have contributed and/or caused the current condition they are in by their past.

What you said was that "there were few people who were in trouble through no fault of their own".

If this applies only in Madison, WI.........well, I suppose that I have no refutation for that...........however, the fact that there are tens of thousands of Lance Armstrong's seems to dispute your position on the matter.

aklim · #40 06-10-2007, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

What you said was that "there were few people who were in trouble through no fault of their own".

If this applies only in Madison, WI.........well, I suppose that I have no refutation for that...........however, the fact that there are tens of thousands of Lance Armstrong's seems to dispute your position on the matter.

So for every Lance Armstrong we have, assuming he has not done anything to harm his body, how many others are there that do or have done something in their past to harm their body? Anyone you know of that hasn't done something abusive to their body in the form of over indulgence, taking unnecessary risks, etc etc? I don't know a single person that hasn't done some form of abuse at one time or another and I am not talking of a one nighter of heavy drinking or a time or two of drug abuse. What about not exercising enough? Not getting enough rest? How about not eating the recommended diet? How much longer a list do you want? Like I said, few people are truly victims of circumstances. A baby born with a genetic disease definitely is. What about you? Every do anything that isn't recommended to your body? I know I have. Look at your family next. How many do you know that treat their body like it should be in the books? Go further and see how many more you know.

Assuming LA is the model of how we should treat our bodies, tell me how many LAs there are as opposed to Citizen Joe who has at one time or other abused his body. What are the odds of meeting someone who has treated his body so well that he has not found ways to abuse it and thus create a situation he needs help with later on. Show me one such individual and I would think that there are many more who aren't like that.

cmac2012 · #41 06-10-2007, 04:34 AM

I can't find a link but I've read before that debate sometimes takes place in medical ranks about the high cost of transplant and how that affects the overall ability to care for the health of the greater populace.

A transplant is an extraordinary measure and very costly (well, duh). How does one decide whether or not to devote say, medicare funds to such things? Since resources are finite?

Designo_E320 · #42 06-10-2007, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

How does one decide whether or not to devote say, medicare funds to such things? Since resources are finite?

The decision is very easy if you have a loved one needing a transplnat or if you yourself is in need of a transplant.

Brian Carlton · #43 06-10-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Assuming LA is the model of how we should treat our bodies, tell me how many LAs there are as opposed to Citizen Joe who has at one time or other abused his body. What are the odds of meeting someone who has treated his body so well that he has not found ways to abuse it and thus create a situation he needs help with later on. Show me one such individual and I would think that there are many more who aren't like that.

I'm simply showing you the fallacy of your argument. There are clearly many more people who are in medical trouble "through no fault of their own".

I'm not disputing the fact that there are also many people who are in trouble because of their own doing. That would be a tangent to the discussion and it's not worth repeating it many times..........as your are currently doing.

aklim · #44 06-10-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

There are clearly many more people who are in medical trouble "through no fault of their own".

So you are saying that many more people take care of themselves, don't expose themselves to risks, etc, etc than those who do? Like I said, maybe it is just Madison, WI and I doubt it but it does seem that my conversations with medical people leads me to the opposite conclusions.