China, Russia, and Iran... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

benzick · #16 08-23-2007, 07:43 PM

thats more like 5 cents but your defenitly right russia should be seaked as an allie, and things are gettign better in iraq, bush had the right intensions just the wrong mind to do what he wanted to i guess, though he must have made a bundle on the oil schemes

china is a very powerful country now, they have everythign we have eccept they controle our economy and have more people, all they need to do is give every citezen a gun and march then right down the whole contenant and asia the continent is thiers. and no nuclear weapon will stop them cuz we will have to nuke other countries which is a big no no!!

JollyRoger · #17 08-23-2007, 08:44 PM

The Iraq War has been lost because those who instituted it failed to grasp how important a unified society is to war making and victory. I do not think it is a valid test of national strength or readiness for war. War with China or Russia is unthinkable. The Chinese would probably make at least five successful nuclear strikes on the Western and central US. The Russians would of course annihilate us, as we them. All outcomes are unthinkable. Iran will soon be equal to China in potential threat to us. It is sad that the adventure in Iraq may spoil that same thing I first referred to: a unified national will. We may need it for real this time with the Iranians.

JollyRoger · #18 08-23-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

I agree 100%. The situation in Iraq was mishandled for the past three years. It is only now that we are doing what should have been done in 2004. However, the Democratic party and more and more Republicans are saying that all is lost there even in the face of things getting better.

You also have to remember that that the toll in Iraq is MUCH less than we saw in Vietnam and amounts to less than the losses on D-Day. The idea that we are doomed to fail in Iraq would have had Eisenhower, Patton, and MacArthur turning over in their graves.

As far as the other countries go, China is my biggest worry. They have the ability to paralyze us economically. They are also a unrepentant police state that should NEVER have been given Most Favored Nation status. They have modern American weapons thanks to Wild Bill Clinton and they have shown themselves to be ruthless (Tienanmen Square) I predict that there will be a day when they get tired of Taiwan and invade it. That would bring us into a conflict with them.

As far as Iran goes, there is a huge amount of people who want to be rid of the Mullahs. The Persian society has always been very cosmopolitan. It has only been since the Shah tried to modernize the countryside too quickly that the whole Islamic Republic thing came about. A Persian friend of mine, whose father was a cabinet minister under the Shah told me that she had supported the revolution thinking it would lead to greater democracy. Nobody expected Khomeni to take over. There have been large protests in the streets there that nobody reports on here.
I think that if we can do it right (big IF there) that country would be better suited for decapitation of its leadership than anywhere else.

As for Russia, they are slipping back into a police state as well. Look at the engineered elections they are gong to have with BOTH candidates hand picked by Putin. The thing is, their military has gone rapidly downhill and is now little more than a joke. Still they are dangerous and we should be trying to make them into more of an ally, as they were under Yeltsin.

Just my 2 cents...

I do not know if Patton et al would have felt that way. Those who have known and seen war are acutely aware that it is a horrible waste. No matter what the casualities in Iraq, it is apparent to most that this is a war that did not have to be fought. I believe they would have seen the loss of what will soon be 4,000 men and countless Iraqis as just that, a terrible waste. We promised them a release from a tyrant and gave them a world much worse than tyranny, for a WMD fantasy, and once that was discovered for what it was, ever-new increasingly bizarre reasons for why we ever went to this unfortunate land.

A friend of mine who is involved with Russian business tells me that the key mistake made in our relationship with them was to berate them for their war in Chechnya. The Russians saw it as responding much the same as we did to September 11, and when the Chechnyan rebels massacred hundreds of Russian school children the Russians began to severely resent us for our posture, and to see us as hypocrites.

dlssmith · #19 08-23-2007, 10:08 PM

The population of Russia is dropping rapidly. Their military is a mess and is one quarter muslim. They will become more desperate - it's already happening, notice how many jounalists have been killed there recently? The thing they have going is natural resources - Something the Chinese lack in profusion. If anyone gets aggressive, it will be the Chinese. Their growing middle class is going to get greedy, just watch.

Botnst · #20 08-24-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlssmith

The population of Russia is dropping rapidly. Their military is a mess and is one quarter muslim. They will become more desperate - it's already happening, notice how many jounalists have been killed there recently? The thing they have going is natural resources - Something the Chinese lack in profusion. If anyone gets aggressive, it will be the Chinese. Their growing middle class is going to get greedy, just watch.

Yep.

Also, there is a dangerous imbalance in the sex ratio in the reproductive years: 17-35. Something like 1.2 males to 1 female. Say there are 500 million men and women in that age group. That means there are about 10,000,000 men who wont match-up with a reproductive female.

In evolutionary terms, reproduction defines success -- this is why when we are young, we spend much of our lives discussing courtship and reproduction. So what happens when a species sex ratio becomes unbalanced? Aggressive behavior increases. What do you do with ten million men between the ages of 17 and 35 whose reproductive interests are unsatisfiable?

GottaDiesel · #21 08-24-2007, 08:05 AM

Just so I'm reading the poll right. 50% of the respondents think we can go to war with China and win...

Is that correct?

Medmech · #22 08-24-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

Then why have stop loss orders been issued and troops required to serve more than one tour? The Pentagon has recently murmured that a draft may be neccessary at the current troop levels.

Somehow they gathered 540000 for Desert Storm.

Botnst · #23 08-24-2007, 09:00 AM

Like Aklim said elsewhere: We could win if we have the will to do it right. Like say, nuke them into submission.

BTW, I think the pole is goofy so I wont vote.

B

Medmech · #24 08-24-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Like Aklim said elsewhere: We could win if we have the will to do it right. Like say, nuke them into submission.

BTW, I think the pole is goofy so I wont vote.

B

I would but I don't have cable tv.

IMO China is more interested in American buying power, I think htye would choose profits over war with the US.

GottaDiesel · #25 08-24-2007, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

nuke them into submission.

B

Guffaw.

Scotch on display.

And all the other goofy things I've seen you write over the years.

...

P.S. China has nukes too. Explain how exactly your strategy allows us to "win"...

Gurkha · #26 08-24-2007, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Like Aklim said elsewhere: We could win if we have the will to do it right. Like say, nuke them into submission.

BTW, I think the pole is goofy so I wont vote.

B

Glug Glug Glug...................and they won't nuke you back with everything they got.................how preposterous, well why would you care if US is nuked, after all it aint Israel.

Chas H · #27 08-24-2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

Somehow they gathered 540000 for Desert Storm.

That was 16 years ago. Why were stop loss orders issued and why are troops serving multiple tours in Iraq?

Medmech · #28 08-24-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

That was 16 years ago. Why were stop loss orders issued and why are troops serving multiple tours in Iraq?

to prolong ETS for trained soldiers, an example is 2nd Brigade 10th Mountain is on its 5th deployment, its not because the Army hates the 10th its because the of the retention and quaility of the troops which don't mind long consecutive deployments. As you know its best to keeps your trained A team in as long possable, I also recall the real "stop loss" was mostly aimed at the reserves.

Voluntary retention of active troops is still at historical highs, if something does not change I am sure that will not be the case.

Medmech · #29 08-24-2007, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

That was 16 years ago. Why were stop loss orders issued and why are troops serving multiple tours in Iraq?

They did issue stop loss during DS.

Chas H · #30 08-24-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

to prolong ETS for trained soldiers, an example is 2nd Brigade 10th Mountain is on its 5th deployment, its not because the Army hates the 10th its because the of the retention and quaility of the troops which don't mind long consecutive deployments. As you know its best to keeps your trained A team in as long possable, I also recall the real "stop loss" was mostly aimed at the reserves.

Voluntary retention of active troops is still at historical highs, if something does not change I am sure that will not be the case.

The actual reason for stop loss is the military has been stretched thin. Regardless of the numbers you have quoted, most units are not combat ready. Here's some further insight.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_loss_092704,00.html

View Poll Results: Do you think we could take these countries on at the military level?
Hell yeah! We're America, we can beat anyone.	10	40.00%
Hmmm... No. We can't even beat Iraq	13	52.00%
I don't care -- I have my beer and my cable tv.	2	8.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll