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#152
09-27-2007, 03:16 PM
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#153
09-27-2007, 05:18 PM
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I've had some nasty brushes with the brothers myself but I think that the way we respond and have responded to the need to make progress in this area is one of the most important aspects of our national growth. Can you imagine what a breakthrough it would be if Sunnis and Shias started treating each other as well as blacks and whites do here today? This in spite of our troubled history in this regard? From my limited experience, I gather that the granting of equality to blacks and other minorities in our military is a big part of why it has been so effective. My feeling is that unless we strive to make our own behavior as spotless as possible, we have limited right or authority to criticize other more repressive regimes.
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1986 300SDL, 362K 1984 300D, 138K
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#154
09-27-2007, 05:19 PM
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#155
09-27-2007, 05:37 PM
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Pergs: do you really think if the DA had made that remark he would admit to it? I'd have to hear a lot more testimony from numerous witnesses to be convinced of that one, one way or another.
Whether or not some students played with the nooses does not deflect the fact that it is a highly charged symbol, one that should be avoided. I'm glad to hear there was some serious hand slapping on that one. The shotgun story is an interesting one. If the group of black youths were so menacing, why was there no report of serious injury to whites after the gun was taken? So many unknowns here. How long was the gun held? Overnight or 3 weeks? What, do you expect someone to take a gun away from someone who was using it to threaten and then just hand it back to them 2 minutes later? Quote:
If he said it, don't really matter who he was looking at -- such a bizarre utterance ought to be grounds for the loss of his job. Don't be abusing power like that in my face, duuuuuudddde. I agree that cutting the tree down was bone-headed. I don't think the fact that there's no record of the youth seeking treatment for the alleged broken bottle incident means anything. Results of such might have been a bump on the head, maybe a small cut, or it could be much worse. I don't like to hear Sharpton get up on his self-righteous soapbox any more than anyone else, but the willingness to absolve all the whites and crucify the blacks JUST IN THIS FORUM is telling.
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1986 300SDL, 362K 1984 300D, 138K
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#156
09-27-2007, 05:46 PM
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1984 300TD
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#157
09-27-2007, 05:54 PM
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Where are you getting your information from? Feel free to check the history page for records of when and how the article has changed.
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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone 
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#158
09-27-2007, 06:01 PM
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You're bluffing. There wasn't that many bits of info in your posts.
OK, if your research was that thorough, have you a clarification on whether or not the DA uttered those words, regardless of where he was looking?
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1986 300SDL, 362K 1984 300D, 138K
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#159
09-27-2007, 06:50 PM
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So, who do you feel is not being punished enough and who is being punished too much? At the Fair Barn party Mr. Bailey and his friends weren't invited to the party and were asked to leave. Some white guy started a fight. Mr. Bailey and friends got into another fight with some other guy and Mr. Sloan was charged with battery by the DA (Mr. Sloan is a white guy). At the convenience store Mr. Bailey and friends are again involved in a violent altercation. Police get two stories from both parties involved. Based on a uninvolved witness, unnamed and unraced, they charged Mr. Bell and friends with theft and other things but not the white guy. At school Mr. Barker allegedly taunts Mr. Bailey and is later punched unconcious by Mr. Bell, football team's star running back, and then Mr. Bell and Mr. Bailey and their friends proceed to kick Mr. Barker's unconcious body repeatedly until a fellow student intervenes. Mr. Bailey has not gone to trial yet. Mr. Bell was convicted of 2nd degree aggrevated assault by the all white jury (not attempted murder). Mr. Bailey and his friends are charged with aggrevated assault and await trial. Keeping in mind that Mr. Bell, while awaiting the verdict of his appeal concerning his assault on Mr. Barker, was already on probation for a Dec 2005 battery. While on probation for the 2005 battery Mr. Bell was convicted of two other seperate batteries and another count of criminal damage of property. So, kindly answer some questions: 1. Is taunting a crime? 2. Is a 6 or more on 1 beating of an unconcious man to be considered aggrevated assault? 3. What seems to be the common theme of all the violent incidents that have occured in this situation? 4. Which whites were guilty of what and what blacks are being unjustly crucified?
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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone
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#161
09-27-2007, 06:57 PM
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Honestly, I don't give a crap whether the DA said what he said or not. I've had cops/assistant principals/bosses say similar things to me, one on one. I think that's way more of a threat than saying it to a whole crowd. He seemed upfront in saying that he could either be the kid's friend or he could screw them if things kept happening. He was addressing the whole student body. I didn't beat anyone's a$$ as a result of what was said to me there's no excuse for anyone else to do so because of spoken words.
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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone
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#162
09-27-2007, 07:10 PM
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Taunting is of course not a crime but under extenuating circumstances, I could forgive someone for punching someone based on it.
Six guys kicking an unconscious guy on the ground is not acceptable under any circumstances. It has been widely reported that the original charge was attempted murder. Perhaps the story was gotten really wrong but that sort of error is hard to imagine to that degree. I will agree that the aggrieved victim stance often taken by American blacks is not healthy for them or anyone else. It becomes an enormous chip on the shoulder that hinders any real progress. In Berkeley about a year ago, a few young men tried to gain access to a party w/o an invite. It was in a black neighborhood and the story implied all involved were black. Eventually they bullied their way in - the father of the house noticed what he thought was a gun in one of them's belt - he took it and ordered them to leave. A few minutes later, the youth managed to re-enter, get the gun, and kill the guy who took it from him. The excessive pride involved in an incident like this is troubling. Hip hop has a vibe of way over the top, belligerent self esteem. There are no easy answers for a lot of this stuff but unfortunately, I'm afraid we all need to walk on eggshells a bit to get to the next level, whatever that is. If you have a few hours, I'll tell you about all the episodes when I was hassled or beat up on by black guys. Then I'll tell about some of my irreplaceable black friends, one of whom was a virtual urban zen master who had a big influence on me. (Yes Bot, thank you so much, some of my best friends are black. So sue me) Life is strange.
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1986 300SDL, 362K 1984 300D, 138K
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#163
09-27-2007, 07:28 PM
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I don't have much sympathy for Mr. Bell (or Mr. Bailey). If anyone needs some time out in jail it would be him. One of his many previous battery charges (not anything to do with the Jena 6 stuff) was for punching a 17 year old girl in the face. Some star running back... I wonder if he raised pit bulls as well?
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-livin' in the terminally flippant zone
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#164
09-27-2007, 07:31 PM
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#2, " Consider the last year in Jena. First, a black student asked an assistant principal at Jena High School whether he and his friends could sit under an oak tree, a favored meeting spot for white students. He was told to sit wherever he liked. The next morning, three nooses were discovered hanging from the tree. Two days later, black students staged an impromptu protest under the tree, prompting school administrators to call the student body into an assembly. Flanked by police officers, LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters stood before the student body and told them any further problems would be treated as a criminal matter. "I can make your lives disappear with a stroke of my pen," he said. Black students said the white DA was looking directly at them when he made the remark, an accusation Mr. Walters denies. Soon after, principal Scott Windham recommended the three white boys responsible for hanging the nooses be expelled from school, but a committee and Superintendent Roy Breithaupt disagreed. Punishment for the incident was reduced to three days' in-school suspension. That decision, according to Alan Bean, founder and director of Arlington-based Friends of Justice, set in motion a series of racially tinged fights that culminated with mirror-image gang-type assaults in December. In an off-campus attack on a Friday night, one of the Jena Six – Robert Bailey – was attacked with beer bottles by a group of white men at a party. The next Monday, white student Justin Barker taunted Mr. Bailey about the beating. Moments later, six black students knocked Mr. Barker unconscious and kicked him for more than a minute while he was lying in a school hallway. He face was badly swollen and bloodied, but he was able to attend a school function that night. Five of the black students, including 17-year-old Mychal Bell, were charged with attempted second-degree murder with bail amounts ranging from $70,000 to $138,000. The charges eventually were reduced to aggravated second-degree battery. In the attack on Mr. Bailey, one white man was charged – with simple battery. " #5, "Bell is one of six black Jena High School students charged in an attack on fellow student Justin Barker, and one of five originally charged as adults with attempted second-degree murder." #6 "The story goes that a year ago, a black student asked at an assembly if he could sit in the shade of a live oak, which, the story goes, was labeled "the white tree" because only white students hung out there. The next day, three nooses dangled from the oak — code for "KKK" — the handiwork of three white students, who were suspended for just three days. Much of that is disputed. What happened next is not" Note that there is no mention of what exactly is disputed "Consider: _The so-called "white tree" at Jena High, often reported to be the domain of only white students, was nothing of the sort, according to teachers and school administrators; students of all races, they say, congregated under it at one time or another. _Two nooses — not three — were found dangling from the tree. Beyond being offensive to blacks, the nooses were cut down because black and white students "were playing with them, pulling on them, jump-swinging from them, and putting their heads through them," according to a black teacher who witnessed the scene. _There was no connection between the September noose incident and December attack, according to Donald Washington, an attorney for the U.S. Justice Department in western Louisiana, who investigated claims that these events might be race-related hate crimes. " Note that none of these assertions is backed up by any source #7 "He lifted his fountain pen and said, "With one stroke of my pen, I can make your life disappear." That evening, black students told their parents that the DA was looking right at them. Walters denies that. Billy Fowler, a member of the school board, doesn't believe it, either." Bolded by me #8 "He fell to the ground and hit his head on the concrete, suffering bruising and concussion. He was treated at the local hospital and released, and that same evening felt able to put in an appearance at a school function. District Attorney Reed Walters, to the astonishment of the black community, has upgraded the charges of Mr Barker's alleged attackers to conspiracy to commit second degree murder and attempted second degree murder. If convicted they could be 50 before they leave prison." #9 "LaSalle Parish School Board member Billy Fowler said Monday that he thinks all of the media attention, and in some cases inaccuracies about the case, have painted LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters "into a corner." Fowler said that the boys would have received much lighter charges without all the attention, although the only attention on the case before the charges were bumped from battery to attempted murder was from local media including The Town Talk and The Jena Times." "When Walters spoke to the students, he said they weren't paying attention to what he was saying or being respectful, Washington said. Washington said the information he received confirmed that Walters made statements about being able to affect the students' lives with the stroke of a pen, but said that reports that the speech was directed toward black students after peacefully demonstrating aren't true." "On Dec. 1, there was a private, invitation-only birthday party at the Fair Barn. Around 11 p.m., five black students tried to come into the party but were told by a woman that they weren't allowed inside without an invitation. The boys persisted, saying they had friends inside. A white man then jumped in front of the woman, and a fight started. A group broke the two up, and the woman asked the white man, not a student, and the black students to leave the party. Once outside, another fight started between a group of white men, not students, and the black students. Police were called, and a white man was arrested. He pleaded guilty to simple battery." Note that none of that is sourced. There is a similar unsourced review of the gas station incident. I'm a little bored right now, but it appears that most of what you quoted from wikipedia is from one or two unsourced articles.
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1984 300TD
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