Like I said in another thread, I queston certain groups loyalty...

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

I am willing to bet enchiladas to tacos that the owners of the bar knew fuill well what they were doing. They are Hispanics and in the Hispanic culture, being on "top" is a position of power in every sense of the word, from economics, to social, to sex. Putting the Mexican flag on top of the American flag is like saying "The Mexican flag is f**king the American flag; and we are f**king you too." You would have to know and understand the culture to appreciate the insult implied by his actions.

Thats what I am betting, they are not stupid.

Its hard to tell if the guy who cut it down talked with them first. Maybe he was coming from that direction.

[blindwolf]

Yes, flying the Mexican flag above Old Glory is in bad taste, but it is no more disrespectful than car dealers and or fuel stations flying our flag 24 hours a day in all types of bad weather.

[Honus]

Originally Posted by kknudson

I too believe it is illegal.

Well, it always pays to read the statutes.

The federal statute posted by others clearly does not prohibit the conduct of the flag owner in that video, so that only leaves Nevada law (Somebody said that this was in Nevada. Is that correct?) Here's the Nevada statute, it's a doozy:

NRS 201.290 Penalty; exception.
1. Any person who, in any manner, for exhibition or display, puts or causes to be placed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, character, marks or notice, or sets or places any goods, wares and merchandise whatever upon any flag or ensign of the United States, or state flag of this State, or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags or ensign, or who in any manner appends, annexes, or affixes to any such flag or ensign any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who displays or exhibits or causes to be displayed or exhibited any flag or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags, upon which shall in any manner be put, attached, annexed or affixed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who publicly or willfully mutilates, tramples upon, or who tears down or willfully and maliciously removes while owned by others, or defames, slanders, or speaks evilly or in a contemptuous manner of or otherwise defaces or defiles any of the flags, or ensign, which are public or private property, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. This section shall not apply to flags or ensigns the property of or used in the service of the United States or of this State, upon which inscriptions, names of actions, words, marks or symbols are placed pursuant to law or authorized regulations.
[1911 C&P § 338; A 1919, 438; 1919 RL § 6603; NCL § 10286]

The closest that statute comes to prohibiting that flag owner's conduct is where is makes it a misdemeanor when someone "defaces or defiles" the flag. I don't see how those words could reasonably be stretched to cover what was shown in that video.

So my vote is that the flag owner broke no laws. I would welcome anyone who can show me otherwise.

...Although throwing the Mexican flag on the ground was not exactly proper either...

No matter what the laws permits or prohibits, his contempt for the Mexican flag was inexcusable, IMHO.

...Personally I also feel anyone who is a Mexican-American, Italian-American, German-American .... Should also be told to be correct, or leave.
IF YOU ARE HERE YOU ARE AN AMERICAN FIRST !!!...

Be careful saying that too loudly at a Saint Patricks Day parade.

[MTI]

There are no federal/state laws or code that trumps the consistent rulings of the Supreme Court of the United States in this matter. Flying the Mexican flag above the US flag violated no law punishable by any court in this country.

As Americans, we have the right to fly any flag, be it the Mexican, Iranian, North Korean, Confederate or, dare I say it, Canadian maple leaf on our property. We can burn it, use it as a bandana, baby diaper or handkerchief. President Bush, during a trip to Europe, exercised his right by autographing the flag for foreign dignitaries.

Americans would be better served by knowing their own laws and becoming more familar with their own civil rights.

[Honus]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Your comment makes no legal or historical sense....

I think that makes two of us. The confusion might arise from these statements:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

...The Code provisions were enacted prior to the 1st Amendment cases involving the burning of the flag...As far as they were concerned, desecrating the flag was verbotem [sic]....

Which "Code provisions" do you mean? The current ones that say how a flag "should" be handled or the penal statutes discussed in your previous posting? The voluntary-standard version is the statute relevant to this thread. Your comments seem to be about the penal version.

So, since nothing you have cited seems to apply to the voluntary-standard version of the statute, I stand on my previous speculation that the legislature used "should" in deference to the First Amendment.

Perhaps you could offer relevant authority to show where I've gone wrong.

...It would pretty amazing if the legislators who enacted the flag act could have, and would have, anticipated that some 50 or 60 years down the line desecrating the flag would be protected by the 1st. Amend...

No doubt about that.

...Otherwise it is just more nonsense.

It's so nice to be off your "Ignore" list. I am flattered that you would take the time to be proactive about my status with regard to the "Ignore" function.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by MTI

There are no federal/state laws or code that trumps the consistent rulings of the Supreme Court of the United States in this matter. Flying the Mexican flag above the US flag violated no law punishable by any court in this country.

As Americans, we have the right to fly any flag, be it the Mexican, Iranian, North Korean, Confederate or, dare I say it, Canadian maple leaf on our property. We can burn it, use it as a bandana, baby diaper or handkerchief. President Bush, during a trip to Europe, exercised his right by autographing the flag for foreign dignitaries.

Americans would be better served by knowing their own laws and becoming more familar with their own civil rights.

And we also have the right to cut it down as that Vet showed oh so clearly.

Freedom of speach and expression are two way streets, you can do whatever you want, express until your hearts content...you just better be able to deal with the backlash.

Is a protesting idiot perfectly within his rights to burn an American flag in front of me? certainly...But the way I express my freedom is to shove my boot so far up his butt that he spits out my shoe laces. We are both expressing ourselves...his backlash is a boot, mine is court.

[MTI]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

And we also have the right to cut it down as that Vet showed oh so clearly.

That "right" as you call it, is a property crime, so please don't confuse the two.

Using your philosophy, we all have the right to break criminal laws because our sense of right, patriotism or personal point of view is offended. Whether those feelings are held by a great many people is of no significance, as it still violates the law.

Was the country that the vet fought for one that was reflects tolerance and justice, or something else?

[peragro]

Veteran:'fight me for this flag”

Posted: 10/3/2007

A video of a veteran upset about a Mexican flag being flown above an American flag in Reno is popping up on Web sites and prompted a response Wednesday by police on displaying the American flag.

KRNV News 4 broadcast a story on Monday of a U.S. veteran, Jim Broussard, cutting down the U.S. flag flying above the bar and taking it away in protest of what the station reported was an illegal display of the flag.
“I took this flag down in honor of my country with a knife from the U.S. Army,” Broussard told the TV station.
“I’m not going to see this happen to my country,” he said. “I want to see someone fight me for this flag.”
Reno police received numerous inquiries about the legality of flying a foreign flag above the American flag. A Fourth Street cantina was identified as the site of the incident captured on video by News 4.
The United States Code establishes a protocol for the display of the American flag in relation to other flags displayed in the same location, Reno police say. But the protocol is advisory and is not a criminal statute. No sanction is in place for violation of the protocol and is not enforceable by local law enforcement.
Nevada Revised Statutes contain provisions relating to the display of the American flag and the Nevada State flag.
“However, none of those provisions make it unlawful to violate the protocol established in the U.S. Code,” the city said in its news release Wednesday. “There are no provisions in the Nevada Revised Statutes regarding the display of flags of other countries.”
If any individual reports a crime, Reno police would take the report. If the facts warranted would investigate and then submit to the prosecutor’s office for a review regarding the potential for prosecution of the crime, the city said.
“It is the policy of the Reno Police Department to protect life and property and to ensure that everyone’s rights are protected,” the release added.

-----

I suspect you're right, Ernesto. The bar owner knew what he was doing when he did it.

[MTI]

Originally Posted by peragro

The bar owner knew what he was doing when he did it.

Which leads to the questions

1) He knew that it was completely legal;
2) He knew it was going to get a reaction;
3) Both 1 & 2

[Jim B.]

Originally Posted by MTI

Which leads to the questions

1) He knew that it was completely legal;
2) He knew it was going to get a reaction;
3) Both 1 & 2

Oh, he might be getting one all right. Maybe not quite what he expected.

Probably people are probably checking the yellow pages already.

Some guy at freerepublic.com already posted that "maybe one fine day the owner of Cantina El Jaripeo will come to work and find his building burned to the ground."

[Honus]

Originally Posted by MTI

That "right" as you call it, is a property crime, so please don't confuse the two.

Using your philosophy, we all have the right to break criminal laws because our sense of right, patriotism or personal point of view is offended. Whether those feelings are held by a great many people is of no significance, as it still violates the law.

Was the country that the vet fought for one that was reflects tolerance and justice, or something else?

Exactly right.

I am unclear about the basis for concluding that Vet acted in a moral fashion. Unless others here know more about the background and context of the events shown in the video, all we know is that an angry Vet took action to prevent a violation of our customs concerning respect for the flag. We don't know why the flag owner did what he did or whether he was given an opportunity to atone. So, all we have is that the Vet stood up for the stars and stripes. Is that enough to give him the moral high ground, without knowing anything else about what happened?

[BENZ-LGB]

Originally Posted by dculkin

Exactly right.

I am unclear about the basis for concluding that Vet acted in a moral fashion. Unless others here know more about the background and context of the events shown in the video, all we know is that an angry Vet took action to prevent a violation of our customs concerning respect for the flag. We don't know why the flag owner did what he did or whether he was given an opportunity to atone. So, all we have is that the Vet stood up for the stars and stripes. Is that enough to give him the moral high ground, without knowing anything else about what happened?

Typical liberal, empty-headed, pretentious arguments.

The bar owner knew full well what he was doing when he placed the Mexican flag over OUR flag. If you think otherwise, I've got some garbage dump in Tijuana I would be happy to sell to you.

It is one thing to have to put up with criminals in other countries stomping on our flag, burning it, spitting it on it. Hell if we are going to put up with it here.

Whether the action of the bar owner were legal or not is not the point. Flying the flag of HIS country over the flag of OUR country is big "f**k you gringos!"

If you want to bend over and let barbarians get over the gate, fine. You do it.

I think that there are enough people who, thank God, won't let it happen.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Typical liberal, empty-headed, pretentious arguments.

The bar owner knew full well what he was doing when he placed the Mexican flag over OUR flag. If you think otherwise, I've got some garbage dump in Tijuana I would be happy to sell to you.

It is one thing to have to put up with criminals in other countries stomping on our flag, burning it, spitting it on it. Hell if we are going to put up with it here.

Whether the action of the bar owner were legal or not is not the point. Flying the flag of HIS country over the flag of OUR country is big "f**k you gringos!"

If you want to bend over and let barbarians get over the gate, fine. You do it.

I think that there are enough people who, thank God, won't let it happen.

Yep.

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

The bar owner knew full well what he was doing when he placed the Mexican flag over OUR flag. If you think otherwise, I've got some garbage dump in Tijuana I would be happy to sell to you.

I don't have any mind reading abilities, but it quite clearly doesn't make a damn bit of difference what he knew. He was within his rights to display the flags in the manner he did. If he was not, it would be illegal.
I personally think he would be incredibly stupid to think that it was a good idea unless he's trying to have something bad happen to him or his bar.

It is one thing to have to put up with criminals in other countries stomping on our flag, burning it, spitting it on it. Hell if we are going to put up with it here.

We are going to put up with it here. People have the right to stomp on the flag, burn it, and spit on it. They also have the right to wipe the drool off their face on July 4th with flag napkins and throw it in the trash.

[Honus]

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Typical liberal, empty-headed, pretentious arguments.

That's me, liberal, empty-headed, pretentious, and, worst of all, typical.

The bar owner knew full well what he was doing when he placed the Mexican flag over OUR flag. If you think otherwise, I've got some garbage dump in Tijuana I would be happy to sell to you...

He was being deeply disrespectful of this country. I cannot imagine going to Mexico City and denegrating their flag. If he didn't take the time to learn our traditions before flying the flags that way, then shame on him. If he did take the time to learn and went ahead anyway, then double shame on him.

Anybody know whether Mexico has a flag protocol similar to ours?

It is one thing to have to put up with criminals in other countries stomping on our flag, burning it, spitting it on it. Hell if we are going to put up with it here.

Criminals? How did that get into this discussion? The only potential criminal I see is the guy stealing one flag and vandalizing the other.

I agree with your earlier comment, though, about not wanting to proscecute the Veteran in the video. Maybe someone could talk to him and explain that, whatever his motivations, he shouldn't be messing with another man's private property. Property rights, I am sure he will agree, are another important American tradition.

Whether the action of the bar owner were legal or not is not the point. Flying the flag of HIS country over the flag of OUR country is big "f**k you gringos!"

You're probably right on that one.

If you want to bend over and let barbarians get over the gate, fine. You do it...

What are you talking about? You think that flag owner shouldn't be allowed in the country?

This has been a nice chat, but I was really hoping we could get back to why your analysis of the legislative history was so far off the mark.