Prison Planet - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TwitchKitty · #31 01-07-2008, 12:14 PM

Prisons have been privatized for profits. Empty prisons are not profitable.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=prisons+profit

Hatterasguy · #32 01-07-2008, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Prisons have been privatized for profits. Empty prisons are not profitable.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=prisons+profit

I think using them as a cheap form of labor is an excellent idea. Prisoners should work and earn there living like the rest of us.

We should contract them out to factories for $1 an hour so we can compete with China.

kerry · #33 01-07-2008, 05:57 PM

Ooops, I hadn't seen this thread when I posted the UK numbers. 80k in prisons over there. I wonder if the UK has any capitalized prisons?
There must be comparative studies out there somewhere. I wonder if anyone has developed some kind of 'danger quotient' which summarizes risks of murder, robbery etc and then done a comparison of danger quotients with rates of incarceration in various countries.

Larry Delor · #34 01-07-2008, 06:00 PM

Maybe we can outsource prisons to China ?

Botnst · #35 01-07-2008, 06:01 PM

Kerry, that's why I am very leery of prison workforce. I like 2 aspects of it: (1) Teaching the prisoners responsibility through positive reinforcement and (2) giving them a trade.

Everything else about prison workforces is from potentially bad to truly evil. The least onerous is that prisons can easily undercut private enterprise production. From there you get the worst extreme as practiced in China--forced labor. What do you think?

B

Botnst · #36 01-07-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

My thoughts on criminal justice in the U.S.:

1. We could easily reduce the prison population with little or no negative side effects by legalizing marijuana and some other "soft" drugs and pardoning non-violent soft-drug offenders.

2. We could further reduce the prison population AND reduce crime rates through increased deterence by increasing the death penalty. Ten years on death row? Too long. I'm sure we can figure out how to manage a reasonable appeals process that concludes (in most cases with the prisoner's execution) in six months or less. Executions should be public and televised on national prime time tv. And lethal injection is way too good for some of the scum bags we have on death row. I'm thinking firing squad, beheading, or for the real heinous offenders, crucifixion.

3. In general we have too many laws and those laws are enforced poorly and inconsistently. We should get back to a much smaller number of laws centered around the idea that something should only be illegal if it causes harm to others, and then enforce those fewer laws vigorously.

Amen.

aklim · #37 01-07-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Kerry, that's why I am very leery of prison workforce. I like 2 aspects of it: (1) Teaching the prisoners responsibility through positive reinforcement and (2) giving them a trade.

Everything else about prison workforces is from potentially bad to truly evil. The least onerous is that prisons can easily undercut private enterprise production. From there you get the worst extreme as practiced in China--forced labor. What do you think?

I don't have a problem with forced labor. You took from society so now society forces you to repay your debt with interest (prison = loss of privileges)

aklim · #38 01-07-2008, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

3. In general we have too many laws and those laws are enforced poorly and inconsistently. We should get back to a much smaller number of laws centered around the idea that something should only be illegal if it causes harm to others, and then enforce those fewer laws vigorously.

Problem with that is that if you did that, sooner or later we get back to the same mess. Why? Well, politicians want to seem like they are doing something. So they create more laws. You see, if you can't enforce the current ones properly, why create more laws? Well because that way, as a lawmaker, I can say "See? I am doing something about armed robbery. I added another 2 laws to prosecute people for it."

Botnst · #39 01-07-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I don't have a problem with forced labor. You took from society so now society forces you to repay your debt with interest (prison = loss of privileges)

Well, we have this tradition in the USA, since about 1865, of proscribing forced labor.

aklim · #40 01-07-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Well, we have this tradition in the USA, since about 1865, of proscribing forced labor.

Isn't that a little different from prisoners? One did little to deserve it while the other stole from society and is thus made to pay his debt?

Botnst · #41 01-07-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Isn't that a little different from prisoners? One did little to deserve it while the other stole from society and is thus made to pay his debt?

I see no difference between slave labor and a prisoner compelled to work. However, I would agree that there is a difference between a slave and a prisoner who freely chooses to work.

A prisoner, even if free to choose whether to work or not, is cheap labor as compared to private enterprise and thus, the State has an unfair competitive advantage with private enterprise. I am uncomfortable with that.

B

Hatterasguy · #42 01-07-2008, 10:51 PM

I have no problem with forced labor. If you are worried about negative affects on the other labor markets have them do something pointless, like move piles of rocks in remote parts of Alaska.

Hatterasguy · #43 01-07-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I see no difference between slave labor and a prisoner compelled to work. However, I would agree that there is a difference between a slave and a prisoner who freely chooses to work.

A prisoner, even if free to choose whether to work or not, is cheap labor as compared to private enterprise and thus, the State has an unfair competitive advantage with private enterprise. I am uncomfortable with that.

B

The slave had no choice, the prisoner commited a crime, and gave up there rights as a result.

aklim · #44 01-07-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I see no difference between slave labor and a prisoner compelled to work.

A prisoner, even if free to choose whether to work or not, is cheap labor as compared to private enterprise and thus, the State has an unfair competitive advantage with private enterprise. I am uncomfortable with that.

Don't you? for the most part a slave is owned permanently. IOW, I own you and any children you breed. A prisoner compelled to work is basically made to earn his keep.

I don't have a problem with making him pick up trash, break rocks, etc, etc. Anything to make him work his debt off. Otherwise we have to pick up the tab for his incarceration.

raymr · #45 01-07-2008, 11:03 PM

Around the world, the US has always had a reputation for gun-slingers, rough gritty urban street gangs and white collar criminals. Much of it has been "romanticised" in books and movies. So why do people recoil in horror when the crime statistics actually coincide with the legacy?

That's not to say it's acceptable, but it's hardly surprising. The real problem is that it will likely worsen as the financial and cultural divide between the haves and have-nots gets bigger.