Panzer march! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #31 01-13-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

There is a point at which fine engineering and manufacturing can be counterproductive.
One is if the precision manufacture takes too much time and too many resources. Thats the Panzer vs Sherman.

The other one is when that fine precision get fouled with a grain of sand. Look at the way you can pour hand fulls of sand thru an AK 47 and it still works, vs the number of German Lugers found lying all over the beaches.

If you want to compare battle rifles you cannot fault the K98, it was one of the best rifles ever fielded. The Russian rifles of the time were very crude, I'm not a big fan of them very clunky. The Germans cranked out millions of K98's so they were simple enough to make, and they are nice to shoot.

Although in terms of small arms we had the advantage in WW2. The Garand, 1903, BAR, 1911, and Thompson were all(and still very much are) supurb weapons in every sense.

KylePavao · #32 01-13-2008, 09:08 PM

K98 was and is a nice rifle. But we Americans had them all beat with the Garand. Higher capacity, semi automatic, about as reliable (as reliable as a semi-auto vs. bolt action can be) and very accurate. Also easily produced.

The Garand gave our rifle teams unmatched firepower. But the Germans built their platoons around a light machine gun anyway, so I suppose the Garand's "firepower" was awash against an MG42(IMHO, the greatest machine gun of all time)

I like the Thompson, it is without a doubt a superbly crafted piece of equipment. But it was difficult to produce, and weighed more than a fully loaded Garand. The M3 greasegun was supposed to replace it fully I believe; but the M3 was more along the lines of the Sten or MP40. Not as "pretty" or cool (by cool, high rate of fire

) as the Thompson.

I own one of thos Russian rifles, an M44 Mosin carbine. My friend has a German 98. The action on my Mosin is not as smooth, but it gets the job done. And the short barrel throws a cool flame at night

Hatterasguy · #33 01-13-2008, 09:15 PM

Well you have to remember we didn't start fielding units with all Garands until 1943-44. If you look at early footage, especialy in the Pacific 1903's were still the norm.

The fact that the basic structure of the Garand is still alive and well today in the form of the M14 speaks for itself.

Yes the German style of fighting based around a machine gun, we stole that from them after the war. Good idea!

The BAR couldn't lay down nearly the same fire as an MG34/42. I understand they prefered to use the BAR's in groups of 2-3 so that one was always firing.

KylePavao · #34 01-13-2008, 09:28 PM

Yup the 1903 was used in Pacific and during Operation Torch. In the pacific, some marines adapted the 20 round BAR clips to act as fixed magazines in their Springfields. A super accurate death dealer with a 20 round magazine that could use standard 03 stripper clips...cool

.

You are right, the BAR's were used in groups. The difference in tactics is amazing. American rifle teams could afford to move around more, as their firepower was more...erm..."portable", while German teams utilized MG34 and 42, meaning their main source of firepower needed to be somewhat stationary to be effective.

I like the Russian strategy; massive amounts of guys mostly armed with fast firing submachineguns (PPSh-41, 900RPM) that posessed huge magazines (71 round drum) backed up by rifleman and light machine gunners. The Russian LMG was interesting if not outstanding, the DP 28. The main advantage of the 28 was that it posessed less than 80 parts

Hatterasguy · #35 01-13-2008, 09:31 PM

The Russian strategy works great, just as long as you don't mind taking huge loses! But in a country like that they didn't give a damn. Its not like today where CNN would go nuts. The Russian media only reported positive things from the front, unless they wanted a visit it themselves.

compress ignite · #36 01-13-2008, 10:51 PM

See attachment

pastmaster · #37 01-15-2008, 08:41 PM

Here's some modern Russian Tanks, undergoing training excercises, doughnuts in the snow and jump run and fire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F89YnN5tEc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0F6HhKbOO4&feature=related

Hatterasguy · #38 01-15-2008, 10:00 PM

Nice videos of the "prey", now here is the hunter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn-sh7KMvbM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bx0bM4S7R8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1ukWWOFqg&feature=related
Those T72's, T80's, and T90's light up real nice when a Hellfire or a dart from the M1's main gun slices through them. The cool thing about the M1 is not only can it fire on the move, its sensors give it the ability to operate just fine in zero visability.

And here is a weapon that would have given Guderian a heart attack!

A tankers worst nightmare! See that in your sight and its over!

They even invented a sport, called "tank plinking". Its a great sport just as long as your not in the tanks getting plinked!

pastmaster · #39 01-16-2008, 11:59 PM

Hattie, YES INDEEDY! You're SPAM in a can, when one of those boys is hunting you down! Not healthy.

Hatterasguy · #40 01-17-2008, 12:28 AM

They are most affective, they were built to take out wave after wave of Soviet tanks as they moved across Germany and France.

Jim B. · #41 03-03-2008, 10:59 AM

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