Hispanic Laborers - Page 10 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #**136** 03-28-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Clearly, there are multiple sides to this complex social and economic issue, however there is undoubtably an element of misinformation, mistruths and some outright racism in the national debate as well, from both sides.

American history, both recent and past, contains numerous episodes of the uglier side of our views on immigrants and immigration. Perhaps it's time we reject the legacies of the past and work on different solutions.

It isn't an issue of racism. It is an issue of illegals being allowed here. I don't care if they are illegal asians, mexicans or martians. They are ILLEGAL. Plain and simple. They have no place here, period.

Again, I'm not saying that we should not have immigrants. Not at all. They are NOT immigrants. They are ILLEGALs. If they want to be immigrants, go thru USCIS.

Hatterasguy · #**137** 03-28-2008, 09:49 PM

Jim and RedBlackGold.

Take it easy, I don'tt want to have to kill this thread or issue infractions. I really don't like doing that.

tankdriver · #**138** 03-29-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Would it be legal?

Only in my dreams. Why?

How? by reporting their income on a 1040EZ?

But I don't break the law to do that.

So their drain on the system doesn't cause me to pay more?

They pay out of their paycheck. No one gets that money back, and it's not insignificant.

They're illegal, fine. Trying to stop them and ship them back is like standing in the Mississippi Delta and holding your hand out and saying 'Stop, or I'll say Stop again'. Cut off the jobs, they'll go all by themselves, and they'll stop coming.

aklim · #**139** 03-29-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

They pay out of their paycheck. No one gets that money back, and it's not insignificant.

Cut off the jobs, they'll go all by themselves, and they'll stop coming.

If it is mostly done under the table, how do you have a paycheck deduction from cash?

That is what I have been saying. Burn the hell out of the employers and it will stop

tankdriver · #**140** 03-29-2008, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

If it is mostly done under the table, how do you have a paycheck deduction from cash?

That is what I have been saying. Burn the hell out of the employers and it will stop

It's not mostly done under the table. It's mostly done by fake SSNs. Certain industries may pay under the table, but at least with the Walmart types and the construction industry, they almost always have fake papers. Businesses usually know, but they need the cheap labor. Thus they get paychecks like everyone else.

BENZ-LGB · #**141** 03-29-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

It's not mostly done under the table. It's mostly done by fake SSNs. Certain industries may pay under the table, but at least with the Walmart types and the construction industry, they almost always have fake papers. Businesses usually know, but they need the cheap labor. Thus they get paychecks like everyone else.

I odn't know about Walmart, but let me tell you how it works in the construction industry.

ABC builder has a crew of one hundred workers. Like most contractors, a large number of the workers are here without papers. Say, for the sake of argument that 40 out of 100 are here illegally.

The contractor will issue a paycheck to maybe ten of the legal workers. the legal workers don;t get the check. Instead, the supervisors take the checks, take them to a check cashing place and then distribute the money among several of the illegal workers.

Example:

Pablo is here legally. He gets a regular paycheck, usually for more than he earns. So if Pablo's real salary is $10/hour, he may get paid at a rate of $20/hour. On payday Pablo gets a check for $500.00. Pablo endorses the check and his supervisor cashes it. The $500 is then shared (cash) between Pablo and 3 of his co-workers, who are here illegally.

When the various state agencies audit ABC construction, the look legit, because a handful of employees are here legally and are "on the book."

This allows the employer to get away with hiring illegal workers, including day laborers. The employer also receives additional benefits by this practice. In California, Workers compensation rates in the building industry are based on, among other things, whether an employee is "skilled" or not. Highly paid employees are assumed to be skilled and so the WC rates for these employees are lower. If pablo is listed on the books at a higher rate of pay (so there is extra money to pay the other employees as in the example above), the WC carrier assumes that Pablo is a skilled worker, thus the WC rate for Pablo is lower than it should be.

Another way the employer benefits is because by having fewer employees on the payroll it looks like the number of employees is lower than it really is. Again, WC rates will be lower for this employer because his payroll is "lower."

Who gets hurts by this practice of hiring illegal workers in the construction industry?

Legitimate contractors are urt because come bid time, the legit guy cannot compete with the guy who hires illegals and has lower costs. The legit guy employes residents and citizens who then potentially lose their jobs ot the illegals working for ABC Construction.

Who else gets hurt?

We, the taxpayers get hurt. If an illegal alien is hurt on the job, and he is not covered by the WC policy (because he did not technically exist) then you and I and all other taxpayers are hurt becaue WE HAVE to pay for the illegal worker's compensation. Illegal workers are entitled to receive WC benfits, regardless of their status.

I have prosecuted a number of employers, mostly contractors, and I am veyr familiar with the scheme above.

These are the kind of hidden stats that no one likes to talk about.

tankdriver · #**142** 03-29-2008, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

I odn't know about Walmart, but let me tell you how it works in the construction industry.

ABC builder has a crew of one hundred workers. Like most contractors, a large number of the workers are here without papers. Say, for the sake of argument that 40 out of 100 are here illegally.

The contractor will issue a paycheck to maybe ten of the legal workers. the legal workers don;t get the check. Instead, the supervisors take the checks, take them to a check cashing place and then distribute the money among several of the illegal workers.

Example:

Pablo is here legally. He gets a regular paycheck, usually for more than he earns. So if Pablo's real salary is $10/hour, he may get paid at a rate of $20/hour. On payday Pablo gets a check for $500.00. Pablo endorses the check and his supervisor cashes it. The $500 is then shared (cash) between Pablo and 3 of his co-workers, who are here illegally.

When the various state agencies audit ABC construction, the look legit, because a handful of employees are here legally and are "on the book."

This allows the employer to get away with hiring illegal workers, including day laborers. The employer also receives additional benefits by this practice. In California, Workers compensation rates in the building industry are based on, among other things, whether an employee is "skilled" or not. Highly paid employees are assumed to be skilled and so the WC rates for these employees are lower. If pablo is listed on the books at a higher rate of pay (so there is extra money to pay the other employees as in the example above), the WC carrier assumes that Pablo is a skilled worker, thus the WC rate for Pablo is lower than it should be.

Another way the employer benefits is because by having fewer employees on the payroll it looks like the number of employees is lower than it really is. Again, WC rates will be lower for this employer because his payroll is "lower."

Who gets hurts by this practice of hiring illegal workers in the construction industry?

Legitimate contractors are urt because come bid time, the legit guy cannot compete with the guy who hires illegals and has lower costs. The legit guy employes residents and citizens who then potentially lose their jobs ot the illegals working for ABC Construction.

Who else gets hurt?

We, the taxpayers get hurt. If an illegal alien is hurt on the job, and he is not covered by the WC policy (because he did not technically exist) then you and I and all other taxpayers are hurt becaue WE HAVE to pay for the illegal worker's compensation. Illegal workers are entitled to receive WC benfits, regardless of their status.

I have prosecuted a number of employers, mostly contractors, and I am veyr familiar with the scheme above.

These are the kind of hidden stats that no one likes to talk about.

Some also hire full or nearly full staffs of illegals with bogus papers. Also, there are the construction industry fabricators; brick makers, countertop makers, cabinet makers etc. that mostly hire illegals with fake paper.
The larger builders can perpetrate the scam you're talking about more easily than smaller places (who also don't hire as many workers).
Point is, 1)many illegals pay taxes through paychecks and 2)you stop them by eliminating the job opportunities.

MTI · #**143** 03-29-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

So, the CCSCE cannot stay, with any certainty, that illegal alines commit less crimes because we have no way of knowing who is legal or not.

You're fortunate that you live in Hawaii. While illegal immigrants have no problem crossing the Rio Grande, I am certain that they would have a much tougher time swimming 1/2 way across the Pacific.

Thanks for that. The specific data quote you refer to is from US Census Bureau data, not from the Council.

Of course that would also mean that neither side can claim that illegals commit more, or less crime (other than their "status") since, as you say, the information is not subject to calculation.

Anecdotal reports of facts are fine, but limited.

Yes, Hawaii has less of a Hispanic illegal immigration problem. There was an INS "round up" of Hispanic construction workers at a downtown building site earlier this year, but certainly not anything the scope of California or other border states.

However, we do have a substantial number of visa violations that keeps the local INS busy, since we are a major entryway into the US from Southeast Asia and have a multicultural population that maintains substantial ties to their former homelands.

MTI · #**144** 03-29-2008, 07:53 PM

In terms of employment/wage impact, the impact of illegal aliens is statistically reported to be limited to lower, entry level positions. That would mean that it would be harder to find a minimum wage laborer position where illegal aliens were in sufficient numbers to reduce competition. In pretty much all other employment sectors, there is little to no effect. Simultaneously, there has never been shown, a correlation between increased unemployment (inability to find work) due to the presence of illegal aliens, including California.