Hispanic Laborers - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #91 03-27-2008, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Don't move to California

It is better than the hellhole I left behind me and not looked back on but until that is the last state, I certainly won't move there.

aklim · #92 03-27-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Just as every underage drinker; pot smoker; file sharing copyright violater; speeder; jaywalker; commiting perjury to get out of jury duty, social gambling, ticket scalping . . . but are they also threats to national security or a class of humans to be treated differently than others?

Define "others". If "others" is that cozy bunch you just mentioned, no. I still treat them as I would an unwanted intruder into my house. But still, what's your point? If it is our own people doing bad things, we have to put up with them to a point. If not, why should we put up with them AT ALL? Our citizens that break rules are our responsibility. They are not. They may be SOBs but they are OUR SOBs. Those border sneaks are NOT our SOBs. If they want to be here, I have no issue with it as long as they get here legally. Many people have done it legally. Why cant we expect it of them?

If your son breaks my window, you are responsible for him. If my son breaks somebody's window, should that person be coming to you for payment?

pj67coll · #93 03-27-2008, 06:39 PM

I also recently became a naturalized citizen. The complete immigration process for me took place over a 20 year period, from the time I first started seriously researching it till I became a citizen. I eventually won a place in a Green Card Lottery. There is a misconception in this country that this means you win a green card. Actually it means that you win the ability to apply for one under circumstances under which you would not normally be eligable. Amongst the documentation you must bring to your interview at the US consulate in your home country is...

Birth Certificate.
Full educational certificiation.
Employment records proving employment in a job requiring at least two years training for a length of time before you apply (I forget that time period now).
Any military records if you were ever in the military in your home country.
Police records from any country in which you have lived prior to applying for the visa.
Twelve months bank records including all account transactions and a written explanation for any unusually large deposits within that time period.
Proof that you will not be a burden on the State or taxpayers in the US.
This last if I remember correctly essentialy means you have to prove to the interviewing officer that you have sufficient funds to support youself when in the US. Given the exchange rate of most countries vs the USA and the fact that the required amount is never specified this is truly flying blind.
Medical tests by specified doctors proving no TB, HIV, or various other diseases.
Then of course you have to pay the visa processing fees. I think they were around $400.00 or so total back when I applied.

This entitles you to travel to the US and apply to enter the country at your port of entry. It does not actually allow you to enter the US. Only if your passport is stamped during your INS interview when you get off the plane are you actually able to recieve a green card.

Then after living in the US for five trouble free years you may apply for naturalization.

I will say that during the entire process I actually found all my dealings with the INS and the US government at all levels to be remarkably efficient and almost pleasant. You do have to make sure all your papework is in order, but then given the gravitas of the activity you are engaged in I would assume that is something all immigrants automatically realise right ?

This has finally culminated for me in my g/f and I buying a house into which we are now moving and we shall be married in the near future.

As I said it was over all a 20 year process for me. For many it does not take nearly that long. I have my own first hand understanding of desiring to leave a 3rd wrld shthl...
but I have precious little tolerance for those who seek to jump the queue for whatever reason.

- Peter.

jlomon · #94 03-27-2008, 06:41 PM

The tacit acceptance of illegal immigrants is a tremendous insult to the many hard-working legal immigrants who came to your country (or mine) the proper way. They filled out the forms. They paid the fees. They jumped through the hoops. And doing all of this demonstrates their committment to the nation they hope will accept them. What message does it send to them, and to those who are thinking of immigrating legally, if it is possible to just jump the queue and get into the country? If it was me, I'd feel like a sucker, quite frankly, for doing everything the right way. I'd feel like I'd been taken advantage of, as well.

aklim · #95 03-27-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlomon

The tacit acceptance of illegal immigrants is a tremendous insult to the many hard-working legal immigrants who came to your country (or mine) the proper way. They filled out the forms. They paid the fees. They jumped through the hoops. And doing all of this demonstrates their committment to the nation they hope will accept them. What message does it send to them, and to those who are thinking of immigrating legally, if it is possible to just jump the queue and get into the country? If it was me, I'd feel like a sucker, quite frankly, for doing everything the right way. I'd feel like I'd been taken advantage of, as well.

They are not illegal immigrants. They are criminals and that is that. Immigrant is defined as: a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence. That is not what they are here for. They are here as leaches, at best, criminals at worst.

Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed Pharmacist".

tankdriver · #96 03-27-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Yeah, lets forget about the idea of law. Lets forget about the fact that we can only support finite number of people. Lets forget about the strain they put on the system. Lets concentrate on the few bucks they dump in. Lets also forget that they are not stuffing big bucks into the coffers. Sure, we have many of them coming over as executives and what not so they are making huge tax payments.

Tell me, would you like to have all the taxes back that are taken from your paycheck? Are you Fortune500 CEO?

The fact that they pay taxes is a fact. That's all it is, there whether you like it or not. You can debate whether they pay less than they cost, for which you will have to specify how you are figuring costs (or how the study you cite figures cost).

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How about another option? Fine the hell out of those who knowingly hire them? Sprinkle in some jail time too

Now that's fair. You can spend all the time you want ranting and raving over how they got here, but it'll never solve the problem. Why they are here, that's where the solution lies. They are here because they get jobs. You work your job to get money to eat and clothe yourself. So do they. You want them out, take away their jobs. Pay more for everything. Run into shortages due to lack of labor.

jaoneill · #97 03-27-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How about another option? Fine the hell out of those who knowingly hire them? Sprinkle in some jail time too

And just who is to determine "knowingly". I read recently of a dairy farmer in the upper midwest who has been pushed to the brink of, if not into, bankruptcy when the INS descended on his farm, arrested he and his son and carted off his entire labor force of illegals. He had bent over backwards to document the legality of this labor force; had gone so far as to present each one's documentation to his local INS office for validation prior to hiring. If INS personnel can be hoodwinked by forged documents, how the bloody h_ll is reasonable to hold an employer liable.

I certainly don't disagree that an illegal is by definition a criminal. However, this problem has been allowed to fester for so long that finding a humane solution will not be easy.

Jim

aklim · #98 03-27-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

Tell me, would you like to have all the taxes back that are taken from your paycheck?

Are you Fortune500 CEO?

The fact that they pay taxes is a fact.

You work your job to get money to eat and clothe yourself. So do they.

Pay more for everything. Run into shortages due to lack of labor.

Would it be legal?

Only in my dreams. Why?

How? by reporting their income on a 1040EZ?

But I don't break the law to do that.

So their drain on the system doesn't cause me to pay more?

aklim · #99 03-27-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaoneill

I read recently of a dairy farmer in the upper midwest who has been pushed to the brink of, if not into, bankruptcy when the INS descended on his farm, arrested he and his son and carted off his entire labor force of illegals.

However, this problem has been allowed to fester for so long that finding a humane solution will not be easy.

Jim

What are the facts of the case? Force of illegals? Was he aiding them in any way to pass inspection? Who knows.

So if we allow it to fester longer, the solution will be easier? WGAS if it is humane or not. They broke the law.

jaoneill · #**100** 03-27-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

What are the facts of the case? Force of illegals? Was he aiding them in any way to pass inspection? Who knows.

So if we allow it to fester longer, the solution will be easier? WGAS if it is humane or not. They broke the law.

Right you are; give them all 30 days to get back to where they came from or, better yet, give them thirty years in the electric chair with no time off for good behavior

Ara T. · #**101** 03-27-2008, 09:38 PM

Hey Aklim, Im just curious, where were you originally from again? Was it Indonesia? Surely you have some insight on what the immigration process was like.

My dad immigrated here from Iran when he was 17 on a student visa i believe. Wasn't hard for him since he's exceptionally bright and was persuing engineering degree which this country loves. He ended up going to school in Idaho... you better bet he kept his mouth shut on where he was from when the Iran Hostage Crisis was going on..

MTI · #**102** 03-27-2008, 09:44 PM

It used to be that the H1B work visa was the "Wonka Golden Ticket" to a green card . . . but it seems that more and more H1B workers don't want to be stuck in the U.S. and have adopted the nomadic lifestyle of global, highly paid, techworkers.

Hatterasguy · #**103** 03-27-2008, 10:12 PM

The process may be a bit longer than it should be, and more of a PITA. My friends Grandparents are from Poland and started to try to come here right after the Soviet Union fell apart. It took them 12 years to sort it all out.

But look at it this way; my ancestors came here on crappy little wooden boats after Europe told them to get the F out, they had to hack a farm and village out of the woods, while trying not to starve and piss of the local Indians. So the first generation has to suffer a bit to get to the promised land. I rather put up with some BS and pay a fee, than live a brutal life and die at 40.

aklim · #**104** 03-27-2008, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaoneill

Right you are; give them all 30 days to get back to where they came from or, better yet, give them thirty years in the electric chair with no time off for good behavior

WWMD? What Would Mexico Do? If we were to do the same to them as they are doing to us? In any case, I'd settle for deportation

aklim · #**105** 03-27-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

Hey Aklim, Im just curious, where were you originally from again? Was it Indonesia? Surely you have some insight on what the immigration process was like.

Singapore. Well, before 911 it was easier. After 911, there were bumps when they revamped the process but we just went thru naturalization. It wasn't that difficult. Sure, if you were Joe Hobo, it might be and rightfully so. If you show that you have something to contribute, you should be ok. Started from a student visa to a 3 yr work visa. Then another and then PR and then citizenship.