Yesterday my University hosted an panel discussion on alternative energy and fuels for earth day. An expert panel of government officials, including the Lt. Governor, and experts in the field were invited to speak on the issues. The panel was split on the future of biofuels, one side claiming excellent sustainablility, while the others cited higher food prices and overcropping doing more harm than pollutive oil based fuels.

The panel did agree that plug in hybrids and electric cars are the best long term solution. The Lt. Governor made an excellent point that most electric cars would be charged overnight, when excess power capacity is abundant and wasted. The panel also agreed that hydrogen technology has not proved itself enough yet, but seems too complicated when compared to an electric system. I suppose a VHS vs. Beta style war is brewing here.

Kansas also has an 2 enormous resource that is not fully utilized, wind and solar energy. Our current state administration is trying to block the building of a massive coal power facility and favor the development of cleaner energy sources.

I agree that the coal plants do not belong in Kansas, especially since 90% of the energy created will be used in other states. As for electric cars, I'm not sold quite yet. How far could these lithium batteries go, and how long does it take to charge? A 200 mile range with a 4 hour charge cycle makes roadtrips difficult. Cell phone and laptop batteries that already use this technology have a pretty short lifespan as well, perhaps 5 years max. Electric motors do not solve the trucking issue either.

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1985 500SL Euro w/ AMG bits 130k
1984 300SD Turbodiesel 192k
1980 240D Stick China 188k
2001 CLK55 AMG 101k
2007 S600 Biturbo 149k Overheated Project, IT'S ALIVE!!!

Obviously, the Lt. Governor skipped school the day that the principle of Conservation of Energy was discussed in science calss.

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

I'd rather go with biodiesel than an electric car. I love the sound of the diesel engine.

An electric car sounds like it would be cool, but I'd be concerned about maintenance costs and battery replacement costs.

I think the problem with the crops and biofuels, is ethanol not biodiesel. The crops capable of producing the oil needed for biodiesel can be farmed with far less land than corn and can be planted in the same field every year.

I've read some amazing things about hemp (not pot). Once the oil is extracted from it, there are MANY other things that can be done with the left overs.

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Chad
2006 Nissan Pathfinder LE
1998 Acura 3.0 CL
OBK#44
"Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." - Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

SOLD
1985 300TD - Red Dragon
1986 300SDL - Coda
1991 - 300TE
1995 - E320
1985 300CD - Gladys

I keep wondering what the long term effects of battery powered cars will be. How will these batteries be disposed of and how much is the cost of ownership of these vehicles vs gas or diesel ones?

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

I read a thread here recently where a member did a cost analysis of his 240d vs. an electric car.

IIRC he figured the diesel was a few cents cheaper per mile in overall costs.
This was factoring in the need for battery replacement every 7 years and initial purchase price.

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Chad
2006 Nissan Pathfinder LE
1998 Acura 3.0 CL
OBK#44
"Pleasure in the job puts perfection in the work." - Aristotle (384-322 B.C.)

SOLD
1985 300TD - Red Dragon
1986 300SDL - Coda
1991 - 300TE
1995 - E320
1985 300CD - Gladys

I wonder at what point (cost of diesel per gal. vs battery costs) the electric would pass the diesel?

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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Now, take it one step further (which NONE of the "greenies" have...) like Dee8go did...

The last time you had to change a battery on your 'd' - how much for for the disposal cost?

To you?

To the distributor?

Was that particular battery able to be recycled?

Completely?

If not, what happened to the parts/pieces/chemicals/components that were able to be recycled?

Now, try that with the "hybrid/Green" vehicles...

Now, how about all these CFLs we are installing (I'm ALMOST 100% myself! ) in our homes...

My electric bill is $40-$60 less a month because of the switch...but now, the hidden cost might come back to bite me in the @55!

Mercury.

Yep, the same stuff in the rivers and fish of the Midwest, East, North, South, West and even in Peoria...

And GOD help you if you break one in your home! If there's an Eco-phreak anywhere near you, you're going to think the sky is falling. Well, it will be...your financial sky.

Clean-up, for one broken bulb, will be the "*****" you never want to meet...bag, or no bag, on her head...

Heads up on this Eco-Phreak world we're being turned towards...short-sighted gains (if any at all) and no long-range planning for any of the consequences.

VERY typical Liberal/Democratic-style thinking...and I'm using the word "thinking" very loosely here...

TTFN!

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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
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“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

Oh really?

This from the uber-right wing comic strip...

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1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K

God, please forgive me for venturing into OD.

I promise I won't do it again.

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1998 E300 +310,000K
1996 E300 +460,000K

These cars will never pay for themselves in their useful lifetime and diesels will, especially when burning Biodiesel!

WELL SAID! Very well said and amen to that! Why is it noe thought of the mercury issue? These light bulbs don't even last a year, so how many of these will be thrown out when worn out?

Has anyone here EVER had a Compact Flourescent Bulb last the 4,6 or 7 years claimed????

And if the only way to make them last is to not stop and start them, which means turning them on and off, then how much electricity are we wasting leaving them on all the time?

Flourescent bulbs were developed as an alternative energy source for commercial office buildings where lights were to be LEFT ON ALL THE TIME!

Yes, in fact many of them.....I've seen an average lifespan of 5-6 years+ for the ones we turn on and off and use the most per day. We have a couple outside that are on 24/7 (security lighting) and they last for years despite the 24/7 operation in all temperatures and weather etc...

I've bought and installed dozens and dozens of them in the past 8-10 years....in that time....probably 4-5 of them have had to be replaced? Thats pretty good! And it really did lower the electric bill noticeably. I also like the variety of color temperatures you can get.

They last a really long time.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

The Lt. Governor's point is well taken from a capital investment perspective. By shifting the consumption of energy to off-peak times, a utility system gets more use out of its power generation and transmission system. That's why utilities charge large users of electricity a lower price per KWH at night.

You are right, though, there is no free lunch.

But wouldnt there be a huge power demand if everyone would be charging their cars at night?

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

Yes.