For those who wish to dish out on Christianity - Page 40 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Botnst · #**586** 07-31-2008, 07:43 PM

There was a big battle that is played out in the epistles between 2 sides of the argument in which one side argues that work without faith is meaningless for salvation while the other side argues that faith without work is barren. The argument played-out over the next 1,300 years or so in which the occasional heretic was roasted from one side or the other. IIRC, Martin Luther argued the famous phrase beginning, "By faith alone ...". That became the rallying cry among protestant sects in their opposition to the Church which they believed thoroughly corrupted by its emphasis on works.

I think it was the recently deceased pope, John Paul, who finally acknowledged that Luther was right in that regard, but also thoroughly embraced the Epistle of James, who advocated for works as a demonstration of faith.

B

MS Fowler · #**587** 07-31-2008, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

"This [ethical] guidance by the Holy Spirit implies that God's concrete commanding cannot be read off from a written document, an inherited scheme of law.
I must learn afresh every day what God wants of me. For God's commanding has a special character for each individual: it is always contemporary, always new.
God commands me (and each person) in a particular way, in a different way than He commands others.
The living and spiritual character of the knowledge of what God requires of men in the present moment must not be destroyed by rules and regulations."

Nice bit of sophistry. You use the Spirit of God to rob the Word of God of its power and import.

kerry · #**588** 07-31-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Nice bit of sophistry. You use the Spirit of God to rob the Word of God of its power and import.

Seems like pretty straightforward Protestantism to me, particularly the Neo-Orthodox variety.

tonkovich · #**589** 07-31-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

There was a big battle that is played out in the epistles between 2 sides of the argument in which one side argues that work without faith is meaningless for salvation while the other side argues that faith without work is barren. The argument played-out over the next 1,300 years or so in which the occasional heretic was roasted from one side or the other. IIRC, Martin Luther argued the famous phrase beginning, "By faith alone ...". That became the rallying cry among protestant sects in their opposition to the Church which they believed thoroughly corrupted by its emphasis on works.

I think it was the recently deceased pope, John Paul, who finally acknowledged that Luther was right in that regard, but also thoroughly embraced the Epistle of James, who advocated for works as a demonstration of faith.

B

john paul is dead? he seemed deceased years ago, so i didn't notice.

do remember him speaking out against birth control/abortion all the time, but figured it was some disney robotic thing.

MS Fowler · #**590** 07-31-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

There was a big battle that is played out in the epistles between 2 sides of the argument in which one side argues that work without faith is meaningless for salvation while the other side argues that faith without work is barren. The argument played-out over the next 1,300 years or so in which the occasional heretic was roasted from one side or the other. IIRC, Martin Luther argued the famous phrase beginning, "By faith alone ...". That became the rallying cry among protestant sects in their opposition to the Church which they believed thoroughly corrupted by its emphasis on works.

I think it was the recently deceased pope, John Paul, who finally acknowledged that Luther was right in that regard, but also thoroughly embraced the Epistle of James, who advocated for works as a demonstration of faith.

B

There is a tension at this point, as well as others in Christianity.
It is true that faith without works is dead. It is also true that Faith "alone" saves.
The faith w/o works refers to the fact that we cannot do anything to earn God's favor. Salvation is ALL of the grace of God. There is nothing there as a source of pride in self.
But it is also true that faith that does not produce goodness may be questioned. If you claim to be a Christian, but there is no evidence in the way you live, people would be correct to question your faith.

Another point of tension is that both God's sovereignty over his Creation, and human responsibility are both taught. To our minds it is difficult to reconcile these two, but both are true.

Gurkha · #**591** 07-31-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

First I thought, wow, that's Gurkha! Then I saw TJ's name on the bottom ....

TJ has way more clout here than Gurkha......

Matt SD300 · #**592** 07-31-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

There was a big battle that is played out in the epistles between 2 sides of the argument in which one side argues that work without faith is meaningless for salvation while the other side argues that faith without work is barren. The argument played-out over the next 1,300 years or so in which the occasional heretic was roasted from one side or the other. IIRC, Martin Luther argued the famous phrase beginning, "By faith alone ...". That became the rallying cry among protestant sects in their opposition to the Church which they believed thoroughly corrupted by its emphasis on works.

I think it was the recently deceased pope, John Paul, who finally acknowledged that Luther was right in that regard, but also thoroughly embraced the Epistle of James, who advocated for works as a demonstration of faith.

B

James and Paul were on the same page....Faith = Salvation....

Botnst · #**593** 07-31-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

James and Paul were on the same page....Faith = Salvation....

I can't determine whether you are for real or an very clever caricature.

B

Matt SD300 · #**594** 07-31-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I can't determine whether you are for real or an very clever caricature.

B

Read the whole book of James........

Then read John 6: 28-29............

Faith Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Botnst · #**595** 07-31-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt SD300

Read the whole book of James........

Then read John 6: 28-29............

Faith Baby!!!!!!!!!!

Matt, believe me when I tell you that I have read the Bible cover to cover and in several translations through use of a concordance. Worse, I have seen enough of your posts that I have formed an unfortunately harsh opinion of your understanding of that which you profess to believe. I'm holding-out hope that I am terribly wrong and misjudging you -- that there is more than meets the eye.

B

Gurkha · #**596** 07-31-2008, 11:31 PM

Matt,
I too believe that there is more to you than meets the eye and hopefully one day you will meet up with this Pagan idol worshipper and confirm that.

LaRondo · #**597** 08-01-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

There was a big battle that is played out in the epistles between 2 sides of the argument in which one side argues that work without faith is meaningless for salvation while the other side argues that faith without work is barren. The argument played-out over the next 1,300 years or so in which the occasional heretic was roasted from one side or the other. IIRC, Martin Luther argued the famous phrase beginning, "By faith alone ...". That became the rallying cry among protestant sects in their opposition to the Church which they believed thoroughly corrupted by its emphasis on works.

I think it was the recently deceased pope, John Paul, who finally acknowledged that Luther was right in that regard, but also thoroughly embraced the Epistle of James, who advocated for works as a demonstration of faith.

B

Well done.

Matt SD300 · #**598** 08-01-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Matt, believe me when I tell you that I have read the Bible cover to cover and in several translations through use of a concordance. Worse, I have seen enough of your posts that I have formed an unfortunately harsh opinion of your understanding of that which you profess to believe. I'm holding-out hope that I am terribly wrong and misjudging you -- that there is more than meets the eye.

B

Cool.....That means Im doing my Job!!!...Spreading the Gospel!!!....

As Jesus said....If they hate me...they will hate you!!.........

See Bot..It ain't about me...It's about HIM!...

Rejecting me dont mean jack...Rejecting Him is HUGE!!!....

Matt SD300 · #**599** 08-01-2008, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Well done.

The blind lead......... The blind...,..................

LaRondo · #**600** 08-01-2008, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Nice bit of sophistry. You use the Spirit of God to rob the Word of God of its power and import.

I wouldn't see it that way, since I acknowledge the presence of 'God's Word' entirely within myself rather than within a scripture.
There is no singular form to the 'Word of God', as often insited on by many, in form of the Bible and the Bible only.

I was trying to throw you a ball.

It's a metaphor based on the distinction between Law and Gospel or the discription of Sola Fide and Legalism on the other side.
It is part of the Lutheran manifest, The Book of Concord.

Here is another one of my personal acknowledgements:

Religion is a very private subject and if not so, it is rather to be shared than to be argued about.