For those who wish to dish out on Christianity - Page 19 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

A264172 · #**271** 07-26-2008, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleton Hughes

You know,you're correct.I'll bet the old boy really got his jollies with this....

http://www.csun.edu/~ghy7463/mw2.html

The best of lies hold the largest truths.

Botnst · #**272** 07-26-2008, 11:16 AM

For logical proofs of God, see Aristotle, Avicenna (derived from Aristotle) and Aquinas (derived from Aristotle through Avicenna). Those are objective arguments, ie, no faith required. No belief required. They have been analyzed innumerable times over the millennia by brilliant minds. Some of the arguments have been found to be weak by many analysts. Whole dissertations have been written in examination of, defense, of, apology for, criticism of, etc.

There is a huge, rich literature out there.

Google is your friend.
Aristotle: Http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/GrPhil/PhilRel/Aristotle.htm
Avicenna: http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/avicenna.htm
Aquinas: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

aklim · #**273** 07-26-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggihatetank

Somebody has to be right .

we're here living and breathing and we didnt just pop into being.

Why? That is like saying we asked the class a question and everyone had a different answer but one of them has to be right. Why? Can they all be wrong? Of course they can.

What's your point there? That because YOU don't understand how we came into being we have to plug an answer, any answer, so we don't have to say "I don't know."?

aklim · #**274** 07-26-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

For logical proofs of God, see Aristotle, Avicenna (derived from Aristotle) and Aquinas (derived from Aristotle through Avicenna). Those are objective arguments, ie, no faith required. No belief required. They have been analyzed innumerable times over the millennia by brilliant minds. Some of the arguments have been found to be weak by many analysts. Whole dissertations have been written in examination of, defense, of, apology for, criticism of, etc.

There is a huge, rich literature out there.

Google is your friend.
Aristotle: Http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/GrPhil/PhilRel/Aristotle.htm
Avicenna: http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/avicenna.htm
Aquinas: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

Cosmological Argument for God basically. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_Argument_for_God

DieselAddict · #**275** 07-26-2008, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chetwesley

To be fair, atheists also fall back on fear in that they have a pride-driven fear that there might be something directing their life other than themselves. Also, they fear having to be bothered with anything but their material satisfaction. Atheists bury themselves safely in their atheism, using their haughty, snobbish, loud-mouthed pride to protect themselves whenever any ideas challenge their belief.

I think you have it wrong about atheists and you're lumping them all in one bag. The atheists I've known, including myself, have no pride-driven fear. We think of ourselves as nothing but dust in the wind, completely insignificant. How is that pride? Consequently they are also some of the most humble people around, concerned primarily with life & the environment as we know it, instead of spending time & energy preparing for some afterlife BS.

Botnst · #**276** 07-26-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Cosmological Argument for God basically. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_Argument_for_God

That's one of the arguments. There were several others. Worth a read if folks are going to argue the rational basis (?) of the western religious mind.

I cannot speak to Eastern (Asian, Oriental ...) religious thought, though I have read the Laws of Manu and found them logically and reasonably structured from first-case assumptions. I have no doubt that people better versed than me can speak to their traditions and religious apologies.

Mistress · #**277** 07-26-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

For logical proofs of God, see Aristotle, Avicenna (derived from Aristotle) and Aquinas (derived from Aristotle through Avicenna). Those are objective arguments, ie, no faith required. No belief required. They have been analyzed innumerable times over the millennia by brilliant minds. Some of the arguments have been found to be weak by many analysts. Whole dissertations have been written in examination of, defense, of, apology for, criticism of, etc.

There is a huge, rich literature out there.

Google is your friend.
Aristotle: Http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/GrPhil/PhilRel/Aristotle.htm
Avicenna: http://www.iep.utm.edu/a/avicenna.htm
Aquinas: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html

Don't forget Kierkegard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Søren_Kierkegaard

hdexpert · #**278** 07-26-2008, 03:16 PM

I saw a bumper sticker that other day that read " I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians, they are so unlike your Christ". This is a quote by Gandhi that I find holds much truth.

LaRondo · #**279** 07-26-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleton Hughes

You know,you're correct.I'll bet the old boy really got his jollies with this....

http://www.csun.edu/~ghy7463/mw2.html

Wow, I am speechless ...

veggihatetank · #**280** 07-26-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Why? That is like saying we asked the class a question and everyone had a different answer but one of them has to be right. Why? Can they all be wrong? Of course they can.

"?

It's irrational to say we just popped into existance by mere chance ,Those odds of winning are never that great even in Vegas.

as a side note I found out a while back that Dave Mustaine got saved .

tonkovich · #**281** 07-26-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggihatetank

It's irrational to say we just popped into existance by mere chance ,Those odds of winning are never that great even in Vegas.

as a side note I found out a while back that Dave Mustaine got saved .

is it irrational to say we don't know?

and what did Dave whoever get saved from?

aklim · #**282** 07-26-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veggihatetank

It's irrational to say we just popped into existance by mere chance ,Those odds of winning are never that great even in Vegas.

as a side note I found out a while back that Dave Mustaine got saved .

And it's not irrational to say that our creator, the one you accept as our creator, etc, etc popped into existence by mere chance?

The member of the band Metalicca? Saved from what? A flood? Fire?

MS Fowler · #**283** 07-26-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

.

That is a really interesting answer.
Some of the things you follow cause you great sadness ?

Does that mean you don't want to agree with them, but go ahead anyway ?

Is that why a lot of Christians seem angry when the talk about gay marriage ?

Thank you for the honest answer, it has really made me think.

RichC

.

Its always risking speaking for others, but as "fools rush in..." I'll try.
In my experience many Christians have an error in their beliefs, Its not an error that, IMO, will keep them from heaven, but an error that prevents them understanding fully.
It is simply this--Some Christians believe that they somehow earned God's favor, That, somehow, they were better than other men, and so God elected them to salvation. This, IMO, leads them to pride, in their own "goodness". Then they feel superior to other people.

My study of Biblical doctrine teaches me that salvation is all of God. There is no good in me. I am dead in my sin. Dead men do not do anything to assist in their becoming not dead. It is all of God. I humbly accept the gift in full knowledge that I do not deserve anything but judgment from God.

As for believing some things that are hard for me, Yes, indeed. As a Christian, I do not sit in judgment on what the Word of God says; instead it judges me, and all mankind.

MS Fowler · #**284** 07-26-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Why? That is like saying we asked the class a question and everyone had a different answer but one of them has to be right. Why? Can they all be wrong? Of course they can.

What's your point there? That because YOU don't understand how we came into being we have to plug an answer, any answer, so we don't have to say "I don't know."?

I agree with you.
Logically, we can all be wrong, but it is not possible that we are all right.

MS Fowler · #**285** 07-26-2008, 07:27 PM

Some you want to argue that Christians are "weak" and need God " as a crutch" to deal with life.
That may apply to some people, but not all.

How about a little "turnabout is fair play"?
I think that for some of the anti-Christian group, you do not want there to be a Creator-God,because you realize that such a Creator could have requirements that you do not want. Therefore you reject any ideas of God. Its not that there is not evidence of God; its that you want there to be no evidence for God.