For those who wish to dish out on Christianity - Page 49 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BENZ-LGB · #**721** 08-04-2008, 05:43 PM

[QUOTE=Mistress;1929837]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

What if they are right?

If there's only one way to eternal life and you know what it is, wouldn't you feel some sort of moral obligation to persuade people to change their perspective on life, the universe, and everything?[/QUOTE

It's against my religion...

NOTE: This was in reply to Mistress' note (or as a follow up to it). Due to the way messages are posted it looks as if I am responding to Bot (who in another thread called me a nutjob...probably with good reason too).

Against my personal view of religion.

I feel no need to convert others. Heck, it is hard enough for me to walk the straight and narrow path, let alone convince others to join along with me.

I couldn't care less what other people believe in. That is a matter of personal choice.

On the other hand, however, if anyone questions the validity of my faith or casts aspersions on my beliefs or decides to call me insecure because I have faith in God, while they do not, then I come out swinging.

People can believe whatever they want to believe, as long as it does not involve the commission of a crime, just lay off my beliefs.

Incidentally, note that I chose to title this thread "For those who wish to dish out in Christianity." That is not the sign of a bleiver insecure on his belief system. Rahter, that is evidence of being secure enough to deal with criticism knowing full well that a the end of the day, when all is said and done, the view of billions of Christians will prevail.

Take a look at this entire thread and see who has been most vitriolic and vociferous. Who is insecure?

One more thing, what if the thread had been titled "For those who wish to dish out on Islam? or Buddhism? or Shintoism? or Judaism?" Would there have been so many posts dishing it out on the subject of the thread?

I think not. But oh well.

aklim · #**722** 08-04-2008, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

That last point is debatable. I think even aklim would agree that he is in all probability earned a ticket on the down escalator.

And, technically speaking (as long as we are speking about Christianity) we are all born with a one-way ticket on the down elevator.

It is through faith and God's grace that we get to turn in that down ticket and pick up a ride on the up elevator.

According to those texts, probably. However, since I don't believe in them, I don't believe in the elevator so it doesn't matter.

BENZ-LGB · #**723** 08-04-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

All the more reason to resist worship of such a God on moral principle.

Your statement makes no sense, logically or otherwise.

BENZ-LGB · #**724** 08-04-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

According to those texts, probably.

We agree on something then...

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

However, since I don't believe in them, I don't believe in the elevator so it doesn't matter.

Just because I may chose no to believe in something does not mean that it isn't there.

kerry · #**725** 08-04-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Your statement makes no sense, logically or otherwise.

It's a question of whether it is fair to condemn people to eternal punishment for sins which they inevitably commit since they are born with original sin. Any God who created a world with such a skewed moral compass should be opposed on moral principle.

aklim · #**726** 08-04-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

Just because I may chose no to believe in something does not mean that it isn't there.

But it doesn't mean it IS there because you choose to believe in it either. Our belief or disbelief will not make it or make it not present. It either is or is not present, independent of us.

BENZ-LGB · #**727** 08-04-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

It's a question of whether it is fair to condemn people to eternal punishment for sins which they inevitably commit since they are born with original sin. Any God who created a world with such a skewed moral compass should be opposed on moral principle.

We each hold the key to salvation. No one needs to rot in hell. (Or burn).

We may all sin, but we can be saved. Sounds like a pretty decent deal to me.

I would like to be able to walk up to the bank that holds the mortgage on my house and have them forgive the entire loan. I am pretty sure that is not going to happen.

God, on the other hand, is willing to write off the entire debt.

BENZ-LGB · #**728** 08-04-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

But it doesn't mean it IS there because you choose to believe in it either.

And it is "not there" simply because you chose to ignore its presence (or chose not to believe in its existence).

kerry · #**729** 08-04-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

We each hold the key to salvation. No one needs to rot in hell. (Or burn).

We may all sin, but we can be saved. Sounds like a pretty decent deal to me.

I would like to be able to walk up to the bank that holds the mortgage on my house and have them forgive the entire loan. I am pretty sure that is not going to happen.

God, on the other hand, is willing to write off the entire debt.

Two problems with that. We all sin because God created a world with original sin in it. The fact that we each hold the key to salvation is irrelevant. An omnipotent God created the world the way it is and then blames us for our actions in the world he created with eternal punishment. God is responsible for these conditions and not us. God is the one who deserves punishment and not humans.

Christianity does not say that we each hold the key to salvation. We can only have faith if God gives us grace, so salvation is in the hands of God not us.

The whole shebang only makes sense if the we accept the view that God is the absolute source of moral value and whatever God does and commands is right solely because God commands it.

I think maintaining independent moral judgment is central to human existence and my moral compass tells me that if I punish my own child for behavior which I was responsible for creating, just isn't fair.

That's why I think the orthodox Christian God should be opposed on moral principle.

aklim · #**730** 08-04-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

I would like to be able to walk up to the bank that holds the mortgage on my house and have them forgive the entire loan. I am pretty sure that is not going to happen.

God, on the other hand, is willing to write off the entire debt.

Of course they will. Just pay it up in one form or another.

For his price, assuming he exists, he will. NILIF

cmac2012 · #**731** 08-04-2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENZ-LGB

On the other hand, however, if anyone questions the validity of my faith or casts aspersions on my beliefs or decides to call me insecure because I have faith in God, while they do not, then I come out swinging.

Not to be an ass, but your tone is sorta provocative, like you're assuming people are going to diss you for being a Christian. Can become like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jesus instructed his apostles on spreading the word:

Matt 10:

11 “Now whatever city or town you enter, inquire who in it is worthy, and stay there till you go out. 12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. 15 Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!

He said to just get up and walk away if they don't grok to the message. He does go on to say that it will bad for them someday but I don't get a sense of needing to complain directly to the people that they don't get the importance of their (the apostles') message.

aklim · #**732** 08-04-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

The whole shebang only makes sense if the we accept the view that God is the absolute source of moral value and whatever God does and commands is right solely because God commands it.

That is the price you pay. Submission.

kerry · #**733** 08-04-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

That is the price you pay. Submission.

Exactly. It requires the denial of one of the most important elements of human life; independent moral judgment.

If I required such behavior from my own children, I'd probably be charged with child abuse.

tonkovich · #**734** 08-04-2008, 07:04 PM

just for the hell (oops) of it, i must ask, where does this original sin concept come into play? in the womb?

in my experience, babies and toddlers and children seem pretty innocent to me.

am i missing something?

Carleton Hughes · #**735** 08-04-2008, 07:13 PM

There is no eternal life.

The one I'm persevering thru is difficult enough without any gilding.