Algae bioreactor - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #46 07-25-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

Why would OPEC flood the market? They can still sell their oil to the Asian countries. China alone, could easily use any oil earmarked for the U.S.

I'm thinking sustainability is the key phrase here. IF they can make this a viable source of oils then they have a shot, price or no price.

Lets say they could, how much oil COULD they produce that will drop it to way below what we are paying?

If they can make it cheaper to produce oil, I agree they will have a shot.

Mike D · #47 07-25-2008, 01:31 PM

Yeah, I agree. It comes down to how much they can produce. I don't think the cost is as critical although it would need to be competetive as the amount produced.

It would be cheaper for us to subsidize the process IF it could provide the amount than it would be for us to drill new wells or work on the shale deposits.

Mike D · #48 07-25-2008, 01:34 PM

Hmmm, factories producing a green edible substance in a world racked with energy shortages and food shortages. Now, where oh where have I seen a movie like that?

aklim · #49 07-25-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

It would be cheaper for us to subsidize the process IF it could provide the amount than it would be for us to drill new wells or work on the shale deposits.

Not if the govt gets involved it won't. Have they done anything lately that impresses? I think not.

SwampYankee · #50 07-25-2008, 02:44 PM

The price of oil/diesel should drop once the Olympics are over. China is using a trememdous amount of diesel right now in the wake of the earthquakes to generate the extra electricity needed. They don't want the embarassment of the world seeing areas without any power. Once the spotlight is off them the demand should subside.

(Also a reason fertilizer prices are so high. The phosphorous and nitrogen mines that weren't damaged by the earthquakes were shut down to minimize the amount of air pollution visible to the cameras.)

DieselAddict · #51 07-25-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Do you honestly see that as a likely event? IOW, OPEC suddenly flooding the market? Not talking about a $10 a barrel drop. Maybe if the price of oil crashed tomorrow to say $50 a barrel, I might worry about investing in this company.

You understand the difference between "can" and "will", right? What have they done lately that convinces you that they "will" be more useful in the project than out? Sure, the govt "can" be more useful than just getting out of the way. If you think it is likely to happen, you might consider grafting wings on a pig and see if it "can" fly. Probably as much chance of it happening. You seem so optimistic that the govt can do this and can do that. Maybe in Europe under different circumcisions. What have they done HERE that convinces you that they are more likely to help than hinder? The gas tax where 46 cents on the dollar is spent on non-road related projects (something that wasn't supposed to happen)? The Tobacco Settlement that is spent on who knows what besides Tobacco Cessation Programs? The raiding of caches of money for other pet projects?

Oil prices can crash for a variety of reasons. I don't think SA has enough capacity to cut oil prices in half just on its own, but say if they max out their production after the world starts going into a recession because of high oil prices, I can see oil prices dropping by half. This would wreck havoc on the entire alternative energy industry which is still in its infancy.

You seem to cite some failures or shortcomings of the govt to convince me that govt is always useless and we'd be better without it. It doesn't work that way. I can easily see them passing a bill calling for an oil price floor or tax incentives for alternative energy, just like what the oil industry receives. That's really all they need to do to play a constructive role and they've done this sort of thing many times before and successfully. It's the various lobbies and special interests that are the real problem.

Botnst · #52 07-25-2008, 03:04 PM

Need greater refinery capacity to meet the expanded production rate.

Chad300tdt · #53 07-25-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SwampYankee

The price of oil/diesel should drop once the Olympics are over. China is using a trememdous amount of diesel right now in the wake of the earthquakes to generate the extra electricity needed. They don't want the embarassment of the world seeing areas without any power. Once the spotlight is off them the demand should subside.

(Also a reason fertilizer prices are so high. The phosphorous and nitrogen mines that weren't damaged by the earthquakes were shut down to minimize the amount of air pollution visible to the cameras.)

Interesting insight Swamp. Did you see this thread?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=227134

Apparently China wants "More Oil" ... maybe they won't let up after the Olympics. ... or maybe forcing a government approved chant is part of their plan save face while the world is in their house.

aklim · #54 07-25-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Oil prices can crash for a variety of reasons. I don't think SA has enough capacity to cut oil prices in half just on its own, but say if they max out their production after the world starts going into a recession because of high oil prices, I can see oil prices dropping by half. This would wreck havoc on the entire alternative energy industry which is still in its infancy.

You seem to cite some failures or shortcomings of the govt to convince me that govt is always useless and we'd be better without it. It doesn't work that way. I can easily see them passing a bill calling for an oil price floor or tax incentives for alternative energy, just like what the oil industry receives. That's really all they need to do to play a constructive role and they've done this sort of thing many times before and successfully.

It's the various lobbies and special interests that are the real problem.

What you say is possible but I'm not so sure it is going to happen. In any case, I wouldn't worry about it. Ideas have come about and scrapped because of this that or the other. If it is strong, when the time comes again, it will grow.

Govt to me is like cytotoxic drugs. Best to stay away from it. Use it if you are having cancer and will die without it. In any case, do realize that sometimes, those drugs have so severe an effect that the cure might be worse than the disease. The difference in our opinion is that you look at the potential and stop there. If I were to do that, I would agree with you. OTOH, I look at recent history and somehow, maybe I am wrong, but somehow, I see a less optimistic picture. Yes, in theory, the govt can do marvelous things. I could lend you money for a project and you might make us both rich. OTOH, if you have bounced checks before with me, do you expect me to have faith in you again? Tell you what. You show me that the govt can balance it's checkbook on an ACCRUAL BASIS and I will start to have some faith. Cash Basis is meaningless and you know that. You don't run your household on a Cash Basis, do you? That a simple enough test?

I wouldn't turn to vices like hookers, drugs and booze if it weren't there too. Sorry, can't remove the temptations of the world. If you are too weak to stand up to it, you are too weak. So why should I trust you after you have shafted me so many times? Because you blame it on others?

DieselAddict · #55 07-25-2008, 03:35 PM

Are you really saying the govt has done nothing good?

Highways, airports, workplace safety, vehicle safety, pollution control, military, etc., all useless??

Botnst · #56 07-25-2008, 03:42 PM

The gov should be for regulating trade and defense and that's about it.

B

aklim · #57 07-25-2008, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Are you really saying the govt has done nothing good?

Highways, airports, workplace safety, vehicle safety, pollution control, military, etc., all useless??

Of course not. Let me ask you this. At what cost? Look at all the things you mentioned.

Highways: Great job. Maintenance of it? Well, you know about the 46 cents
Military: Great job. Look at the spending methods. Remember the expensive ashtrays and the seats?

My point is that ever time we get them involved, it ends up costing more than we expect in terms of complexity and money. So, lets involve them as little. We are talking about addicts here. In the case of a druggie, he is addicted to drugs. You don't hand him too many if you can. In the case of the govt, they tend to make things harder and more expensive. Don't involve them if you can help it.

IF I handled money like they do, would you trust me controlling your life savings?

Govt is like the devil. Think of the spook movies. We want something. We ask the devil for help. The devil complies and you think you got a great deal. Suddenly, the devil comes knocking and wants payment.

DieselAddict · #58 07-25-2008, 03:52 PM

Well I happen to enjoy my crumple zones & airbags as well as the cleaner air & water we have today. I'd like to see the private sector implement those things. It'd take ages if not infinity.

PaulC · #59 07-25-2008, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Need greater refinery capacity to meet the expanded production rate.

Sorry, NIMBY.

Hydroelectric power? No thanks, those damn dams will flood the natural habitat of the rare double-breasted veeblefester.

Plant-based fuels? No thanks, they too require processing plants. See answer #1.

Nuclear? Well, Three-Mile Island and Chernobyl have not enveloped nuclear power in a rosy glow. Plus the French are doing it. Next.

Windmills? And spoil those beautiful mountain views? Cad.

Solar? I just shelled out a small fortune for my beautiful dream house. NFW am I going to bastardize my roof with those tacky solar panels. Let my neighbor use them.

Wait! I've got it! Let's import our energy from far-away places!

aklim · #60 07-25-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Well I happen to enjoy my crumple zones & airbags as well as the cleaner air & water we have today.

I'd like to see the private sector implement those things. It'd take ages if not infinity.

You better. You paid dearly for it.

If you made it as profitable for them as it has been for the govt, they would do it.