anybody replace windows in their house of late?
 

old house w/ old windows. thinking of upgrding to more ee windows. trying to find out a decent price range to work in. looking for a cost per window figure and any help is welcome
thanks
gregg

I think the price will vary by region. Best thing to do is get 3 or 4 estimates and pick the one you like best (not necessarily the cheapest). Get references and look at their product samples to make sure the quality is what you expect. We replaced all our old single pane windows/storm windows with zero maintenance vinyl clad. If you are going to be there a while, get the best quality you can afford.

i just put 4 new windows in.all triple low e glass.have you heard of habitat for humanity.well here in iowa they have habitat stores.they have alot of excess stuff from their builds and they also get overstocked items from lowe's.they have alot of odd size windows and are about 1/4 the cost of the big box stores.

Block house, or stick house?
Since you need a permit to replace a window here (six screws out, six screws in), I may know of a guy that replaced some of his old anderson crank windows, with double paned vinyl windows. When he replaced his first (call 2x3) window, it cost him about $79. They have since broken the $100 barrier. A call 2x3 is around 3 feet wide, and a bit taller than it's wide. Sound is remarkably reduced, drafts are a thing of the past. You can no longer feel the heat radiating from the window when it is hot outside.
The trouble with older block homes, is that the window openings may not be a standard size. Same goes for stick homes...but at least with those, altering the opening isn't such a pain. (making sure the opening is square, can be fun too).

Oh...I saw this guy, replace one of his windows in just over half an hour. He probably took about 8 minutes to caulk the edges.

that is truly the rub
we should have done it three years ago but couldn't "afford" it...now we're looking to move but it isn't a sure thing

On the new houses, we can get Silver Line or Atriums for about $200 a pop ish. Double hung, vinyle, hurricane rated. They are OK for the money.

http://www.atrium.com/

http://www.silverlinewindow.com/companyinfo.cfm

Were doing a higher end build now, and the owner picked Anderson which are about $400-$500 each, and IMHO suck. None of them close right, total junk. Atriums would have been better. They also had big snots of chaulk in the corners so they wouldn't fully close until that was dug out! None of the frames were straight, and they use an annoying hurricane bracket system. Took the framer twice as along to install them. I'm surprised because my dad installed this same window about 5 years ago in our house and they are great. Something must have happend.

Marvin or Harvey are the way to go for nice windows.

How about Gotta's favorite brand? Pella? :D

If you have an older home with double hung wood windows and can find a craftsman capable of repairing the damaged ones I have found that repairing and painting the original windows, and installing high quality storms and wrapping the frames on the outside with aluminum gives an excellent result and is cost effecient.

I did this in my old home of 1866 and my old commercial building 1928.

On my new home 1991, I used Andersen windows. I have had no issues with them. Andersens in my experience are an excellent window but the frames are fairly flexible and care must be taken to install them straight. If you pull the frame out of its plane the window will not seal.

I actually wanted to replace the windows in my old office building but could not find any new windows at any price that were half the quality of the original windows so I repaired them and installed the storms.

and where prey tell (pun intended) is that Pella Fella?

100 year old log home that has been sided w/ vinyl. i'd like to do new windows but your suggestion is worth considering. i am concerned that when we try to sell it any potential buyer will want to see "new windows"...reminds me of how people react when a car has new tires on it!

New windows done incorrectly though are distressing....maybe like new tires put on such as recaps or a very cheap brand.

Advertise your repaired windows as "correctly restored windows with high quality modern storm windows" and you'll be fine.

I replaced all of my windows with Andersen 400 casements. I got them all off of Craigslist, E-bay, or the Habitat for Humanity Restore (several locations). I saved over $3,000 getting them that way. I also saved a small fortune doing it myself. I did quite a bit a driving to get what I needed at times. For instance, on one trip (from Northern Virginia) I drove to Newark, New Jersey and picked up 4 windows, then to two stops in Long Island, New York where I got 5 windows, and finally across the Long Island sound via ferry (where I got an hour or so sleep) to Conn. and R.I. for the final stop. I completely filled the back of my Grand Caravan (with the seats removed). The entire trip took me 19 hours. The closest place where I got windows was less then a mile away (2 CR24s still in the box with tempered obscured glazing for my bathrooms for $160!!) All the windows were new and I got them for dimes on the dollar - mostly from contractors who ordered the wrong size or had a client cancel some work or make plan changes. I ended up mulling some together to fit the holes in my house, but with the Andersens it was not difficult once I figured out their standard sizing. It took me about 4 months of gathering to get everything I needed.

wow! great savings and a road trip to boot! i have a choice to do either 16 windows or include the attic for a total of 20. local contractor who works with my neighbor quoted $400 per installed...don't know if thats good or not:confused:

went through this in the last 2 years in 2 stages ~~~ my building is in a historical district and i was using facade grant money

contractor quoted @ $350 per window installed for middle grade (home depot/lowes) vinyl, double pane, uv, double hung, 35"x70" for 25 windows = $8750

the 25 year old woman in charge of approving such improvements voted those down along with the next 2 samples from a real window company ~~~ after 3 months of this BS finally was told they HAD to be made of wood but could have aluminum or vinyl cladding

finally got her approval for windows at $800 a pop installed, thusly only got 10 = $8000 ~~~ the 10 covered the 2nd floor living quarters, stage 2 covered the other 6 windows on the 2nd floor = $4800 with half of that out of my pocket ~~~ must admit that these windows are really nice quality and work well and unbelievable as to the amount of heat they reduced in the summer with a western exposure

don't remember the name of these, but not a national advertised one, definitely the quality is there and all custom made ~~~ installation for each stage was done in a single day by 2 workers, and no complaints

One of the bathroom windows did not exactly fit, but I was able to slightly modify the house to make it fit.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/100_0549.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/100_0560.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/100_0563.jpg

One of the windows I got from a salvage place was actually in an Andersen display. I just took it out of the display and put it in the house.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/100_0716.jpg

Shop around for prices and look at the product. Replacing the entire window can get expensive if you hire someone like me to do it. However this is the most "correct" way to do it and maintains the window size. Replacement windows (read inserts) are great but they do reduce the size of the window due to the new frame going into the old frame. Vinyl replacements can be chunky/bulky and look heavy, etc. Andersen is making a new replacement window that is actually inexpensive at about $220 each for a lowE tilt wash double hung setup. Pella makes a nice unit too, an old customer of mine opted for a complete Pella refit for about $10K on a raised ranch. A dedicated window company will have better prices than a general contractor.

I can attest to the value of upgrading from old single panes and storms. My house had that setup and then it was fitting with vinyl replacements, by the previous owner, my father-in-law. The house has electric heat and the KWH dropped by 25% after the upgrade. More than worth it, less drafty too. RT

Avoid Pella Windows
 

2 neighbors had Pella windows installed several years ago and have had nothing buy trouble with leaks and rotting of the stiles, sills, etc.

Pella's response is to refuse to honor the warranty and refer them to a local Pella contractor who demands 50% above the going rate in advance and then installs the same stuff that rotted out previously.

Pella evidently has been taken over by a conglomerate that has reduced quality to a minimum and refuses to honor the warranty given by Pella for windows manufactured and installed by previous owners/management.

Consider yourself lucky that you were dealing with the young gal and weren't in one of the six facade programs that this old guy is currently administering. We don't allow any replacements unless the existing are so far gone that rehabilitation is impossible, and then we typically replace only the sash, with replica sash (single glazed) from one of our local window shops.

I fully realize that we live in a plastic, throw away society but that doesn't mean that I have to follow suit. Vinyl windows, for the most part, have a design life of 12-15 years and the Lifetime warranties they come with aren't worth the paper they are written on.

I recently had to replace 38 ten year old junk vinyl windows that had been installed in one of my rental buildings just prior to my buying the building. I told the seller at the closing that I would have paid 20K more for the building if he had not done the "window replacement" that he touted as a major selling point. Fortunately he didn't damage the original jambs and sills beyond repair and I was able to make the repairs and have replica sash made. With the installation of decent quality storm/screens the fenestration now looks as it should, and is now more energy efficient than the vinyl crap we took out.

A large part of my business is administering housing rehabilitation programs. We oversee rehab of 150+ single family homes a year and find that we are having to replace more and more vinyl windows that are only 10-15 years old.

One last point; unless older wood windows are literally falling apart, replacing them has the poorest ROI of almost any energy conservation measure.

Jim

For us, replacing old wood windows with vinyl, was a no-brainer - and energy conservation was just a minor selling point. Did ours about 8 years ago, and I'd do it again in a second.

In addition to saving $30-50/month on heating and A/C, we gained two benefits that were worth the change, even were there no monthly savings.

Our home is now quiet - we can't hear a thing from the outside world. No more road noise, and the screaming rugrats that fill our family friendly neighborhood, no longer make me think of solutions I can't discuss here. :D

Second - they function just like the day they were installed. They are near impervious to heat/cold/humidity, and just plain work.

I don't doubt for a second, the experiences you've mentioned. But, there are tons of manufacturers, tons of installers, and geographic and weather concerns that don't apply to everyone. "All vinyl is bad", is simply too general a statement.

Very true, but there are big differences between manufacturers in this regard.

Last home we had, we replaced all the aluminum windows with Vinyl inserts by Simonton. The frames were left in place, but the vinyl inserts had an extremely low profile - we lost less than 1" around the perimeter. Other insert manufacturers we looked at, were far more obtrusive. I'm sure there are many more options today.

We've kept in touch with the folks we sold to, and those windows are now about 12 years old - still working great for them, albeit in a relatively temperate CA climate.

When you compare the cost saving in utility bills between unrepaired wood windows with no storms and new vinyl windows that is not the same as comparing it to refurbished wood windows with properly installed storm windows.

That would be the fair comparison but there is no practical way to do it.

Single hung windows suck IMHO. The house I have that were trying to sell has a set of original 1927 single hung, with a nice storm window setup put on probably 15 years ago. They are lose as can be, you can actualy rattle them when they are latched, weather stripping? Whats that. Sure they lasted 90 years but they are lose as can be and leak a lot of heat. Plus you have to strip and repaint them, I don't want to do that or pay for it.

If I was keeping it I would replace them with some vinyle double hungs.

If you want a good wood window and don't mind spending some money, Marvin's are pretty nice:
http://www.marvin.com/?page=double_hung

Thats like something we would use if we were building a million and a half dollar house.

What is the comparison with wood windows and storms versus a decent new window.......say Anderson double hung.......with regard to energy efficiency?

I'd presume that the storm does the majority of the work with regard to limiting airflow and the three inch space between the two windows is superior to the 1/2" space on the double glazed Andersens.

Be interesting to see a side by side comparison, although it's difficult due to the lack of any data on the wood window/storm window combo.

And, why would that be?

How many folks actually use the upper sash?

I hardly ever open the windows to start with, in order to keep the humidity out. My single hungs, can tilt in, so if I ever am tempted to wash the outside of the top window, I can do it from the inside.

I ment single pane; I actualy like single hung with half screens I think the bottoms open better, and they are tighter.:o

I say that ANY double glazed modern window is superior in every possible way to an old single pane with triple tracks. There is no way the 3" airspace is better than the 1/2" in the double glazed. Two reasons: The storms/triple tracks are not completely sealed at their perimeter, they have moisture drains, etc. The single pane double hungs also do not have particularly good sash seals, etc. so drafts are common complaints. When you do tighten up old windows they then are usually too tight to operate if the wood swells a bit. So in winter they are loose in the dry air and summer they swell and don't open or close. A modern double glazed window is completely sealed with either a vacuum or an inert gas between the panels. I have toured a Guardian Glass plant and seen them being made. Its really pretty impressive. Well all know how well a vacuum thermos works, its the same principle. The modern materials in the seals on the sashes is also light years ahead of any old window.

I've installed more new windows than I care to mention. In each and every case the result is less drafts, better insulation, less noise, etc. all leading to more comfort. Unless you are restricted by the local hysterical (historical) nazis you would be insane not to upgrade if possible.

Never done a Pella but haven't heard any negative things about them around here yet. Time will tell though if they have cheapened the product.

RT

The last 6-plex we built, we used Pella. The last personal home remodel, we used Andersen windowalls. If I were building another personal residence, I would probably go with Jeld-Wen.

Infiltration is the primary energy loss with double hung windows, it is the nature of the beast. I have seen blower door tests performed on housing units with both new insert vinyl windows, and rehabilitated weather-stripped 100 year old double hung windows, with equal results. Add a decent quality storm and the old window becomes more energy efficient.

When performing energy audits we find the ROI (return on investment) in energy savings when replacing even poor wood double hung windows with vinyl replacements stretches out to years, very often beyond the design life of the replacement units.

Jim

Well, I have not done any infiltration tests. In my experience though, the wood window with a good storm will not match the new quality window on infiltration. In my personal experience though, the windows on my old home and on my old office building were huge by modern standards. over three feet wide and over seven feet tall. Most window manufacturers will not even make a dh window that big and any other style even less so.

The cost of a new quality custom made window that big is just staggering, and you have to get very very precise measurements because ordering the wrong size is a big big hassle.

If you assume that the windows in an old structure are all the same size you will meet with disaster as in many cases they made the opening and then made the windows to fit. They look like the same size but don't try to swap sashes from one to another.

And while the old window properly refurbished and equipped with a good storm may not match a new window for thermal performance, they are pretty good, and that is only one part of the equation in making a selection. Longivity and historical correctness is also a factor. Historic houses that were scorned thirty or forty years ago are now prized.

You really have to look at everything to make an informed decision.

Agreed, but the key is in the weather-stripping of the historic sash, they can be made as tight as a new unit, inch for inch. However, as you have pointed out, the size (lineal feet @ perimeter of sash) will make a difference.

Just makes me crazy to see these wonderful old buildings "plasticized", completely destroying the architectural integrity for limited, short term benefit.

Jim

The wood dh in my old house have a very sophisticated system of copper and galvanized weatherstripping and interlocking devices to stop air infiltration, much more comprehensive than the new plastic thingies which will break off in ten years or so.

I really detest it too...especially when folks plop a new smaller window in an opening and build down to it....ugh!

I just finished the scope for a brick apartment building in a nearby town where they had downsized from 3-0X6-6 to about 2-6X3-4 and infilled the balance of the openings with OSB. We are tearing out the garbage and replicating the original sash. Owner had seen the transformation when we did a similar project nearby and requested the work. There is hope:D

Jim

Great!

Well guys, I bought a 1907 Queen Anne with wonderfull 6 foot high DH wood windows in various conditions. Windows leak air like you would not believe. Some can actually rattle. Electric baseboard heat. Short term goal is to keep the heat in this winter. Trying that heat shrink palstic inside the windows for now. Long term is to rehab the windows. I want to keep house as close to original as possible (with subtle improvements in sealing and whatnot). If you have some neat weather stripping system I am all ears.

You would want to check out the Secretary of the Interior's Standards for the Rehabilitation of Historic Structures; lots of information.

There are many options for weather stripping, from the brass type that Tom referred to earlier, to the more modern and arguably more effective "felt" or "bulb" types used on new windows (mounted on the stops, meeting rail, head of top sash, and bottom of lower sash).

I rehab'ed the windows in my 125 year old home thirty five years ago, and have yet to weather strip them (one of those things I never seem to get to). Have been working my way around the house (32 windows - 34" X 84", round top) for the last four years reglazing and performing minor repairs, should be the last time I have to do it if I die when I ought to. Simply adjusting the stops and the sash locks on the meeting rails can make a world of difference.

Jim

This seems like a difference in customer income class. Most of my customers are solidly middle and middle to upper class and in homes that are 30-50yrs old. Restoring a single pane from that era doesn't make sense. 95% of the windows I have done are Andersen. They have a great warranty, great customer service and they last very well. Currently I perform all maintenance/rehab work on a multi-million dollar waterfront condo complex. The place was built in the '80's with Andersens. With virtually no care in the worst possible environment, ocean exposure, the Andersens are now starting to fail. Not the weatherstripping mind you, just some of the double glass seals and tension strings. Not a bad run for a product requiring little attention. No way you could do this with a traditional single pane double hung wood window. The maintenance would be obscene.

The times I have worked on 100+year old buildings and restored windows the labor cost was quite high. It would have been cheaper to swap out to new customs if the hysterical society would have allowed it.

I have done 9-10 custom bay/bow window replacements from wood single pane to a custom build from a company in Maine called Paradigm. There is simply no comparison. I have a custom Paradigm bay in my house. The living room was unusable in winter before I made the change. Not that the old window leaked, it was well maintained, just radiated cold into the room. Paradigm can make any size you want and often the cost is quite reasonable in situations where the framing would have to be changed to accomodate an "off the rack" window.

Historical buildings are fine for restoration but I work on normal homes that normal people live in and they have no desire to deal with old style windows.

RT

Not the windows, but I have replaced my front door. I put a Feather River fiberglass door in that looks like Oak. It's pretty nice and really seals out the cold well.

I'm keeping the original windows and storm sashes.I just plasticise 'em and keep the thermostat down to 59,supplemented with wood and coal fires in the 3 stoves.

Right now I'm sittin'on the ring in the 3rd floor W.C. and I can feel the cold air wafting up to my,well,you-know-whats.

The problem with most double paned windows is their appearance. I have the old type, divided lite windows on my house. I'd hate the way it would look with thermal windows even though I would save a lot of money on gas.

Jesus Christmas. I dunno whats worse. Keeping the T-stat at 59 or the fact that you are posting from the throne! Dude, put the laptop down before going to the crapper. The forum will be there when you get done.... :D

RT

B,but,it came with a wireless card?

I usually just make doo with a good magazine or something . . . .

I wouldn't disagree with changing out 1980's windows, or for that matter anything newer than 1950. But, you have made my point in mentioning 25 year old windows that have to be replaced.
We live in one of the worst climates in the lower 48 and find that 100 year old windows, with virtually no maintenance, are only now beginning to fail. Although I realize that it is the "American Way", that new is better, I have a problem with substituting the new 10, 15, or 25 year product for the 100 year old, infinitely more appealing unit that will be around for another 100 years with a coat of paint every 15 years and replacement of the glazing compound every 25. That to me is minimal maintenance, certainly less than a regularly scheduled, full replacement every 10, 15 or 25 years (depending on the quality of the "new" crap.

Jim

While I understand your position and why I think that maybe you don't understand mine. Most of my work is coastal RI, South Kingstown and Narragansett. Look on a map you will see lots of coastline. That means salt air. Here an aluminum screen door lasts 10 years, tops. Most go maybe 5 years and are eaten apart from salt. Paint lasting 15 years? Holy crap, in my dreams, 4-5 years if you are lucky. Premium red cedar shingles last 15 years if left to "weather" Window glazing disintegrates in 6-7 years. Its almost impossible to keep door hardware, outside lighting, metal railings, etc. looking decent if not alive for more than a few years. Any lumber that is not backprimed, joints too, and seams caulked will check, cup, warp and pull of the building in 10 years. Properly installed 25-30 years is about it unless scrupulously maintained. Wrought iron railings disintegrate to scale in less than 10 years. Galvanized fasteners are worthless, stainless is the only acceptable method of fastening anything within a few miles of the ocean. You can do it your way, and many wealthy folks do. There is a veritable army of skilled "new england tradesmen" that cater to the mansion owners with the pockets to keep up with this work. Everybody else eventually comes around to synthetics. RT

Salt is brutal stuff. Even SS will rust eventualy.

Waterfront homes always need painting; most of the larger ones have contractors that are always on site doing something.

We are getting ready to pull the trigger and replace the windows in our home. We just moved into a 40 yr old house and the windows are crap. They are single pane aluminum windows that I suspect are original to the home. They are falling apart and need to go.

We have received several estimates and the windows them selves seem to be very similar. The biggest difference is going to be the installation.

I live in North Texas so weather is not as extreme as elsewhere. We have hot summers and some what cool/cold winters. What are the things I need to be watching for when they install my windows? Do they need to put insulation around the frame or is chalk sufficient? I have never installed windows before so I really do not know what to look for.

Pella sucks
 

Do not buy Pella under any circumstances. they changed ownership and cheapened both manufacture and warranty support. They are no longer a top tier firm.

Marvin is what we spec for our clients and if that is too much $$ then Andersen.

Sash pockets and flashing
 

Well fixing the flashing and replacing the sash weight system with a spring loaded sash system and filling the sash pockets and caulking the exterior makes a big difference as well as removing the molding on ext/int and insulating. Not that hard a DIY job.

If you are serious, do a refit after removal and install membrane seal on wall around the window after insulating and filling old sash pockets. Tru low E system is A1 but if you want to keep the original frames you can restore then yourself and rout the frames to fit the spring loaded sash system. Labor is more but if you DIY or work with a smalller contractor as his labor you can do it for 1/2 labor cost.

We replaced 18,000 1950's casements 10 years ago in my co-op with Arrow aluminum low E system with expansive gasket system against the existing brick opening and membrane wrap under the flashing/molding plus high grade cauking. 10 years later we have begun to recaulk s a std maintenence schedule. Failure rate of the units is about 1/2 of 1 % mostly gasket at the glass. Try getting 10 windows per apartment in 180 buildings (2 story garden type) done on a real schedule and then maintain after 10 winters (5 serious winters)!

Wall wrap
 

Depending on WIND level, a tyvek or blue skin membrane wrap at the outside for 16-18" around the opening and a cconcerted program of insulation and air leak seal at the sash posketc (if they exist) and good exterior and interior caulking cam make a ton of difference. Texas Wind can work it way through anything!!