Okay close Gitmo, then what? - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Honus · #91 01-27-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

On what do you base your doubt, anything substantive?

It just doesn't ring true to me.

Honus · #92 01-27-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Of course the folks held at Gitmo aren't villains, they're the victims of Americcan militarism. These men are horribly mistreated when what they need is a hug and understanding...

I keep hearing people say that sort of thing as if it's an argument that people have actually made. Are you aware of anyone who has said anything like what you just said?

MTI · #93 01-27-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

I keep hearing people say that sort of thing as if it's an argument that people have actually made. Are you aware of anyone who has said anything like what you just said?

The impression that the public has been given is that all the detainees are terrorist masterminds . . . then we learn about a bunch of Chinese muslims . . . then the ones that were merely foot soldiers, not commanders . . . foreigners that were eventually repatriated . . .

There's clearly no single definition of who is being held captive for the past seven years.

Medmech · #94 01-27-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

I am with you on all of that except for the very last part. Stepping back and adjusting plans based on new information is not necessarily waffling.

If you hold him to the W standard its a lie, I'm cutting O some slack and calling it waffling, I know I'm in the minority but i applaud waffling it takes more balls to waffle than to be ignorant.

Honus · #95 01-27-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

If you hold him to the W standard its a lie,

Not even close. At most, it's a broken promise, although I don't even see that.

Quote:

I'm cutting O some slack and calling it waffling Not even close., I know I'm in the minority but i applaud waffling it takes more balls to waffle than to be ignorant.

I haven't seen any waffling from Obama/Biden, but otherwise I agree with you about this. Waffling is highly underrated.

tankdriver · #96 01-27-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

The difference between a "concept" and a war is that people die in war. Osama Bin Laden declared war on us in the 1990's though hardly a politician in DC noticed.

That's not the only difference. Osama Bin Laden is a specific person. A specific person at the head of a specific international gang. War is fought between opposing entities. Terror is not an entity. There is no Terrorstan filled with Terrorstanis trying to kill Americans. Terror is whatever you want it to be. It's a state of mind. You can no more war against terror than you can war against observation.

If a drug dealer kills a person in a drive by, that's murder, not war. It is certainly terrifying when it occurs. The victim is innocent. The drug dealer has rights when he is caught.

LUVMBDiesels · #97 01-27-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Gee, perhaps part of the problem might be that Obama's team has not had access to the classified nature of the "case files" for each prisoner. Maybe that's why he wasn't aware of the scope of the problem. I suppose he should have realized that the Bush administration never even pretended to act in accordance with the law with respect to Gitmo detainees and therefore wouldn't maintain case files on the prisoners.

The Limbaugh brothers are a real pair.

You are sure of this? That there are no case files on these guys? Gee I didn't know you were stationed at Camp Xray.

DL raises valid points regardless of who wrote the article.

pj67coll · #98 01-27-2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

If a drug dealer kills a person in a drive by, that's murder, not war. It is certainly terrifying when it occurs. The victim is innocent. The drug dealer has rights when he is caught.

The forces of Islamic Jihad, are not drug dealers, the movement is not a gang. It is a manifestation of a religiously inspired cultural medievalism that is terminally hostile to western civilization. It's proponents when caught, instead of ideally being killed outright, should be afforded no more consideration than to be disposed of efficiently with the least energy expenditure possible. They are not uniformed combattants of a conventional army and should have no rights pertaining thereunto. They are a cancer in humanity and should be treated as such.

- Peter.

Honus · #99 01-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

You are sure of this? That there are no case files on these guys?...

That's what was reported in Sunday's paper: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/24/AR2009012401702.html

tankdriver · #**100** 01-27-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

The forces of Islamic Jihad, are not drug dealers, the movement is not a gang.

They are exactly both.

Medmech · #**101** 01-27-2009, 04:53 PM

Has anyone taken something over for someone else that was not in complete disarray? Anyone with executive experience knows that the methods of keeping information are completely different from office to office, you guys need to stop accepting lame excuses and demand performance I guarantee that O will fail if you don't.

MTI · #**102** 01-27-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

The forces of Islamic Jihad, are not drug dealers, the movement is not a gang. It is a manifestation of a religiously inspired cultural medievalism that is terminally hostile to western civilization. It's proponents when caught, instead of ideally being killed outright, should be afforded no more consideration than to be disposed of efficiently with the least energy expenditure possible. They are not uniformed combattants of a conventional army and should have no rights pertaining thereunto. They are a cancer in humanity and should be treated as such.

- Peter.

Applying the lens of history, would the same be said of . . .

any culture outside of "western civilization?"

Oh, say like the aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas; Australia; then later the "better dead than red" rhetoric of the Cold War with the Soviets and Chinese, Cuba, Vietnam, Central America . . .

Honus · #**103** 01-27-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

...you guys need to stop accepting lame excuses and demand performance...

What excuses? Has Obama made any excuses? I haven't heard any, yet.

You are correct that methods of keeping information vary, but that Washington Post article paints an ugly picture. It looks to me as if the Gitmo file situation is worse than just a difference in approach.

Medmech · #**104** 01-27-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

What excuses? Has Obama made any excuses? I haven't heard any, yet.

You are correct that methods of keeping information vary, but that Washington Post article paints an ugly picture. It looks to me as if the Gitmo file situation is worse than just a difference in approach.

Where did the WP get this information?

I always blamed W where he deserved it but I've been through enough changes of command that even the simplest transitions are chaos.

pj67coll · #**105** 01-27-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Applying the lens of history, would the same be said of . . .

any culture outside of "western civilization?"

Oh, say like the aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas; Australia; then later the "better dead than red" rhetoric of the Cold War with the Soviets and Chinese, Cuba, Vietnam, Central America . . .

Pretty much yes. But those other cultures are not waging war against western civilization. Not only is Islam doing precisely that but it has the huge advantage provided by globilization of being able to use the west's weaknesses against it. This was not the case in the past and radically alters the battlefield now.

- Peter.