Saab done for? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Honus · #31 02-18-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by awsrock

That only stopped in 1972! What about the years after that, lol. Just think of anything domestic that was made in the early 80s! (with some exceptions, of course)...

That's true. I should have said that the decline started back then.

awsrock · #32 02-18-2009, 03:55 PM

I always thought the 510 was a neat looking little car!

pj67coll · #33 02-18-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

Yes and no...I think they are more like VW's or Scions. They probably wouldn't sell them here but they would continue to flourish in their existing markets. But if there is a power vaccuum in the car market (Aka 2 of the big 3 go under) Then there will be gaps that need filling and sales quotas to meet.

That's not much of a vacume. The real reason they have been in trouble for so long is that there are simply too many manufacturers with too many products. In order for them to be productive again excess brands and manufactuers must vanish.

- Peter.

Fulcrum525 · #34 02-18-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

That's not much of a vacume. The real reason they have been in trouble for so long is that there are simply too many manufacturers with too many products. In order for them to be productive again excess brands and manufactuers must vanish.

- Peter.

Thats a much better way of putting it.

Hmm, why do I suddenly start to see parallels with British Leyland....

#35 02-18-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helpplease

Hat that still doesn't address the horrible quality of some of the vehicles and DEFINATELY doesn't address how ugly cadillac has gotten!

When was the last time you drove a GM vehicle?

Have you driven:

Chevy Malibu?
Pontiac G8?
Pontiac G6 GXP?
Chevy Corvette?
Chevy Cobalt?
Cadillac CTS?
Cadillac STS?
Buick Enclave?
Buick Lucerne?

The "GM makes crap" argument might have held water in the mid 1990s but it is no longer true. GMs issues are financial - centered around past products, not the current set. I maintain that their vehicles are as good or better than any other vehicle in the same price category.

awsrock · #36 02-18-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

When was the last time you drove a GM vehicle?

Have you driven:

Chevy Malibu?
Pontiac G8?
Pontiac G6 GXP?
Chevy Corvette?
Chevy Cobalt?
Cadillac CTS?
Cadillac STS?
Buick Enclave?
Buick Lucerne?

The "GM makes crap" argument might have held water in the mid 1990s but it is no longer true. GMs issues are financial - centered around past products, not the current set. I maintain that their vehicles are as good or better than any other vehicle in the same price category.

I agree! I'm tired of hearing people say "well they need to start making more fuel efficient cars, etc..." In reality, though, they do offer some decent competition. I mean, the Cobalt XFE gets 37 hwy, which is hard to beat. The Malibu supposedly gets 33 hwy. Efficiency isn't the issue..maybe GM can have a strike against it for having more trucks, but if you buy a truck, what do you expect in mileage?

I'm not saying that GM and Ford quality is stellar, but it certainly isn't as bad as everyone makes it seem. Unfortunately, I think most people are using GMs reputation against it today. Just like everyone is using Honda's reputation of the 1990s to claim it is the best thing since sliced bread..and how everyone thinks MB is crap because it had some dark years at the turn of the century.

So, all these green people can scream all they want about having the Chevy Volt be available tomorrow, yet I think people STILL wouldn't buy it. It isn't going to save them, so I hope they don't bother.
I am still convinced that offering LESS models, and having some euro-spec diesel engines are what are going to be the short term sales solution. Or, they can go under and then maybe we'll be buying Renaults again. Who knows.
When the Volt is ready, then it can come out. Ignoring everything else in the mean time to rush the Volt into production would probably be a huge mistake.

Brian Carlton · #37 02-18-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

When I was in college, I had a 1971 Dodge Colt, made by Mitsubishi. That car was superior in every respect to its American competition - the Pinto and the Vega. In fact, it's a joke to compare the Pinto and Vega to any of the Japanese cars imported in the early 70s, especially the Datsun 510.

When I worked for Chrysler, a good friend picked up a Colt with a bad engine. We got a engine for free via some connections and changed the engine over one weekend. No engine hoist.........naturally. We muscled it up and into the bay while suspended from a 2 x 4. Ahh.........those were the days..........24 years of age and unlimited strength.

That colt was an excellent vehicle.........five speed IIRC..........took a beating and simply asked for more.

I owned an old Mercury Capri with the 2000cc German engine which was a decent vehicle as well.........but absolutely no match for the Colt.

OldPokey · #38 02-18-2009, 05:02 PM

Actually, it was more like:

Designer, engineers, marketing: We have a great potential product that got rave reviews at all the auto shows and would bring in a new demographic!
Bean Counter: That's great! Now build it on a minivan chassis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

I always wondered what happened in the US automaker boardrooms.

VP of Product Development: "Here is the new......AZTEK!"
CEO: "Wow...you guys spent 5 minutes designing that thing"
CFO: "If we shove enough repackaged brands in people's faces we'll get all demographics."
CEO: "Build it."

iwrock · #39 02-18-2009, 05:07 PM

Have any of you driven the G8 GT? Its an awesome vehicle for the price. LS6 V8, 6 Speed Manual, finesse of a BMW.... Fit and finish is excellent for the price bracket.

I would take one over its European Counterparts. Problem is that I have this image of a broken down American car on the side of the road....

TheDon · #40 02-18-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

When I worked for Chrysler, a good friend picked up a Colt with a bad engine. We got a engine for free via some connections and changed the engine over one weekend. No engine hoist.........naturally. We muscled it up and into the bay while suspended from a 2 x 4. Ahh.........those were the days..........24 years of age and unlimited strength.

That colt was an excellent vehicle.........five speed IIRC..........took a beating and simply asked for more.

I owned an old Mercury Capri with the 2000cc German engine which was a decent vehicle as well.........but absolutely no match for the Colt.

I miss my colt... I was going to swap a mitsu turbo motor into it for a nice sleeper car

diametricalbenz · #41 02-18-2009, 05:25 PM

Save the Corvette but few people I know really WANT one of those cars or really say. WOW! I want one of those!

The least being the Cadillacs which I swear were designed when the artists were shopping for soap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

Chevy Malibu?
Pontiac G8?
Pontiac G6 GXP?
Chevy Corvette?
Chevy Cobalt?
Cadillac CTS?
Cadillac STS?
Buick Enclave?
Buick Lucerne?

raymr · #42 02-18-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

Have any of you driven the G8 GT? Its an awesome vehicle for the price. LS6 V8, 6 Speed Manual, finesse of a BMW.... Fit and finish is excellent for the price bracket.

I would take one over its European Counterparts. Problem is that I have this image of a broken down American car on the side of the road....

It's not really American, so no worries.

iwrock · #43 02-18-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

It's not really American, so no worries.

I know its not american. Still that Pontiac badge makes me leery.

They need to bring over more of their international offerings. Holden and Vauxhall make some pretty cool stuff over seas. I would be more interested in GM products if they did that.

iwrock · #44 02-18-2009, 06:00 PM

I would buy a GM if they brought these in SS-V trim.

raymr · #45 02-18-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iwrock

I know its not american. Still that Pontiac badge makes me leery.

They need to bring over more of their international offerings. Holden and Vauxhall make some pretty cool stuff over seas. I would be more interested in GM products if they did that.

Ditto. The Chevys and Buicks I've driven lately feel like there is some kind of rubbery insulation in the brakes and steering. It gives a cocoon effect, like guiding the car along instead of driving it, that I don't much like. I haven't tried a Malibu yet which I heard is much better.

As for myself I just bought a Chrysler, how crazy is that. The body panels aren't nearly as crisply stamped and finished like the old Mercedes. And so far I fixed 2 rattles and aligned the hood. But you know what, I'm happier doing little things with a car instead of having a perfectly boring (boringly perfect) little jewel like a Lexus.