Should scientists study the presumed relationship between race and IQ? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #31 02-22-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Why? What would we do with the information? Just the process of trying to study the issue in any scientific manner would be divisive. And what are the odds of coming up with conclusions that people will accept as true? It is a pointless exercise and I would question the judgment and motivation of any scientist who devote his or her career to this subject.

You can go ahead and debate if you like. Looks like a waste of time to me.

I do agree with your suggestion for peer review. Charles Murray might have saved himself some public embarrassment if he and his co-author had submitted The Bell Curve to peer review. Of course, if they had done that, the book probably never would have been published.

Sounds like a sophisticated form of thought censorship. " You can't handle the truth"
I understand that defining the issue, and developing an objective methodology might be difficult.

Honus · #32 02-22-2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Sounds like a sophisticated form of thought censorship...

Not at all. Nobody is stopping you or anyone else from studying whatever issue you want. It will be a hurtful, divisive process with no chance of success, but it's a free country. So, have at it.

Fitz · #33 02-22-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

60 years previously the entire university would have pilloried the uppity fat Jew for promoting racial equality....I felt embarrassed for the ignorant, closed-minded kids. They are just as resistant to ideas as their parents and grand-parents.

I grew up down there, and the people and the history of the region are a little more complicated than your remarks imply.

MBlovr · #34 02-22-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz

Here's an IQ test that I'd like to suggest....

If three or four years ago, you answered a solicitation in the mail that offered the opportunity to refinance your home or borrow money to buy a home with little or nothing down and an Adjustable Rate Mortgage...and you didn't understand at the time you signed the papers that your monthly payments would almost certainly increase in a short period of time...you probably have a low IQ.

I understand that there are 100's of thousands of such people claiming to be victims of their own stupidity, though for the sake of this thread, I'm not sure how they would would break down into racial categories. Neither do I see how it is possible to seek the protection afforded to idiots without also assuming the social stigma of being an idiot.

Botnst, I take it you don't identify much with the people who inhabit that region of the country. Why do you live there?

So are you saying that the people in Stockton California who were essentially paid to buy their house then walked away when they were upside down did so because they lacked intelligence, but the people who loaned them the money on the premise that property values would always increase possessed superior intelligence?

Fitz · #35 02-22-2009, 09:38 PM

I'm referring to the ones who are seeking and about to get mortgage relief from taxpayers because they "didn't understand" what they were signing.

tankdriver · #36 02-22-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

So Darwins theory is wrong?

Which theory?

Ara T. · #37 02-22-2009, 11:48 PM

Considering race has no scientific basis it's rather hard to conduct a scientific study on it.

Botnst · #38 02-23-2009, 09:23 AM

The scientific problem of race coupled with the scientific problem of cognition seems like a horribly, probably hopelessly complex field of of study.

Forget the problem of defining race, what does "IQ" measure?

B

Kuan · #39 02-23-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Forget the problem of defining race, what does "IQ" measure?

What do you think? I think it's most accurately described as the measure of likelihood that one might get other similiar questions correct.

JollyRoger · #40 02-23-2009, 10:41 AM

Any pursuit of scientific truth is justified.

Mistress · #41 02-23-2009, 10:59 AM

It's already been done- read a book called the Bell Jar.....

Medmech · #42 02-23-2009, 11:53 AM

I was really good at hockey and skiing but sucked at basketball.

What color am I?

Botnst · #43 02-23-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howitzer

I was really good at hockey and skiing but sucked at basketball.

What color am I?

Olive drab.

MS Fowler · #44 02-23-2009, 02:55 PM

Even if there was a proven connection between race and intelligence, it would be information that you could not actually use. We have (good) laws that prevent discrimination based on a variety of factors. One thing I learned when I was a saleman was "Never pre-judge a sale". Same thing applies to employees, possible friends, etc.
Or, as the Sargent in "Gettyburg" says, " Anyone who judges by the group is a fool".

mgburg · #45 02-23-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

The scientific problem of race coupled with the scientific problem of cognition seems like a horribly, probably hopelessly complex field of of study. ... Forget the problem of defining race, what does "IQ" measure? ... B

From the few IQ Test that I've seen and participated in over the years...it appears to be a quantified single number, the result of many different disciplines...English, Spacial Relationships, Math, History, etc...

If I were color-blind or blind altogether, a few that I had taken wouldn't mean anything...you needed to be somewhat visually equiped...

None of them though, took into account particular aspects of human interaction, like:

"Sign this paper and get a free slap in the face." GOOD or BAD

"How do you feel?" (Question asked of Spock, on Vulcan, during his "retraining" following his "rebirth.") ((O.K.!!! I'm a trekkie!! Go ahead and deduct 5 IQ points!!!

)

My IQ has tested out, consistently, over 135...so what? I have what I consider Social-Interaction shortcomings...but why do I have the IQ I do? I read a lot of books and still do...book smarts...that's it...but socially, I'm a bit above "White trash" and lightyears from caviar...I like my beer just a few degrees cooler than room temperature and my wine completely gone (anything left in a bottle is being wasted...you can't re-cork a good wine...not around me!!!), visually, any women naked is great, but I won't go to bed with 'em 'cause I'm a one-woman kinda' guy...look but don't touch...simple and safe rule to (hopefully) live by...

The point being this: IQ Tests measure everyone on ONE PARTICULAR PLANE of existance...not on everyones' OWN level...that part hasn't been able to be put to paper...that's why they've been determined to be "racial" in their makeup...

Do you give a black kid with a high IQ rating more points for being able to survive living in the ghetto, vs. the black kid with the same IQ rating less points because his family was able to live in the suburbs where death by stray bullet before age 16 was less of an issue than death by a driving accident?

Does the white kid living in a trailer in the hills of Kentucky get extra points on his IQ score vs. the white kid with the same standard IQ number living in Bel Aire?

And, how do you GENETICALLY test for the above conditions?

You can't...ever.

Your genes don't show where you're going to live, how you're going to live and whether you're going to live to be 90, 70 or even survive the fetal stages of development.

This afternoon...I may decide to have one of those bottles of slightly-less-than-room temperature beers a like so much...and somehow, a little germ, floating through the air, landed right where my lips will partake of the sweet nectar from the Gods...

And tomorrow, my IQ won't mean squat...if I'm a vegtable or worm food, b/c of that one little germ...

Conditions folks...it all comes back to conditions...

Look at this way...if someone is shooting at me...do I want to stand behind the smartest guy in the world while he reasons with the shooter, or do I want to stand behind the dumbest thing in the area (a rock) 'til the shooter runs out of bullets?

Next IQ question...