By master navigators in Micronesia. They start learning the stars names and it takes about 30 more years of training to know where you are on the planet using only your mind and senses.

Yes, very interesting. Steve ????? who was on This Old House wrote a book on Pacific Island sailors methods of navigation. He did a trip with them I think. A New Zealand sailor (who also circumnavigated Antartica) wrote a book on their navigation skills after sailing with them. I think it was a better book than Steve ???'s.
My way of thinking about the differences between European celestial navigation techniques and Micronesian navigation techniques is that the European methods are mathematical and the Micronesian is strictly empirical. I'd like to know how well a Micronesian would do navigating across the North Atlantic.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

You have to know a islands location to set a course from where you are now... so I'd guess horrible. I wonder how Europeans would do with celestial navigation using only your own eyes and no tools other than string.

Not according to those books. It's been a long while since I read them but they were capable of locating islands far in front of them by reading changes in wave patterns. That's why I was wondering about the North Atlantic since there are so few islands there. I agree that European methods would not work well without sextants and math.
I think the empirical method is certainly more advanced in observing and interpreting one's environment, especially in relationship to the stars. But I also think it has serious limits. The sextant/math method can locate you anywhere on the planet independent of knowledge of islands.
So, while both methods are powerful, I think the sextant, clock methods are superior. I don't think the Europeans could have established world wide empires without their navigation methods.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I was in Galveston, hanging out with Thing One last weekend and he was working out some star sights he'd taken (it was homework). Celestial nav has always seemed like a black art to me and late Friday evening, he explained some of the fundamental tenets to me that somehow put it all together. I'm friggin impressed...how did anyone ever figure that ***** out?

__________________
Never a dull moment at Berry Hill Farm.

Celestial navigation is a challenge. I took a course to get certified about 10 yrs ago. There were 48 students the first night. 3 people at the final exam.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I think its nuts (in a great unbelievable way) that people can get into a sub 30 foot canoe and find a island 500 miles away with nothing but thought and eyesight. Even better is that they can find other islands even further away they have not been to with just the directions from another navigator.

Here is one of the two...

TRADITIONAL NAVIGATION: One of the traditional navigators from Satawal cleans up the canoe they used to sail for eight days from the outer island of Yap to the CNMI without the aid of modern navigational equipment. Two canoes, which reached the waters off Managaha on April 17, sailed to the Susupe Beach yesterday in time for the opening of the 28th Flame Tree Arts Festival. Inset shows a child enjoying a moment of solitude on one of two canoes.

I'd love to sail on that canoe.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13