Garden prep question - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ramonajim · #1 04-30-2009, 08:46 PM

Darling Wife has over 200 seedlings that need to get in the ground, pronto - else they're gonna completely take over the office

Pretty much every square foot of our ~ 2 acres is grass, including the areas she has picked out as best for the garden beds. Figure we'll be building slightly raised beds in 4' x 4' squares. Hence my question: what are my options for dealing with the grass?

Roots are ridiculously thick and run 6" to maybe 10" deep. Really want to do this right (Darling Wife has put a lot of effort into building purdy green things out of microscopic little seeds - and we're hoping to cut a measurable chunk out of our food bill as a result) but time (and my back) suggest looking at short cuts.

Can I simply buy/rent a tiller and turn the grass under, or do I need to scalp the garden area and replace the sod with new soil? Other options? FWIW, seeds and everything that has gone into them are organic - planning to carry that through the whole process, so agent orange to remove the existing foliage is out.....

Chad300tdt · #2 04-30-2009, 08:59 PM

I'd cut the sod off, till the area, lay your 4x4's, add topsoil and till to mix.

I'm setting up my garden now too.

I'm just about finished with the fencing and I'll be ready to start planting. I'm also doing a pots for herbs to keep them from taking over the garden.

I bought a tiller which I use to turn my compost pile too. They are pretty cheap for a small one and you don't need anything huge for an average garden.

ramonajim · #3 04-30-2009, 09:22 PM

Figured that was the right answer - kinda hoping someone will still chime in with "nah, no worries, just till the grass in!!"

What options are there for cutting the sod off - hoping for power tool assist, 'cuz if the only option is a sharp bladed shovel and a broken back, this one'll be getting hired out......

Squabble · #4 04-30-2009, 09:31 PM

you can till the sod, but you have to do it in multiple steps, each one with a lower tiller setting. after each pass with the tiller, you need to take a gravel rake and rake the loose sod out of the patch (shake it off if you need the soil), and put it in your compost as it makes amazing compost and helps a slower pile pick up the breakdown pace. you cannot till and till until the sod is gone as each little root cluster will grow back into an annoying weed. if your back is really bad, this might be the best option but it does take a little longer to complete. if your raised beds are high enough, the added topsoil and compost will suppress most of whatever gets left in your patch. my wife and i started our garden this way and had the same if not less weeds than my brother in laws garden that was cut sod and hand double-dug.

Chad300tdt · #5 04-30-2009, 09:42 PM

If you choose to cut the sod, you can rent a sod cutter or buy a manual sod cutter that you lay on the ground and kick under the sod to cut it in strips.

How big of a garden are you planning?

EDIT: WOW! I just tried to look up a kick-type sod cutter to show a pic and they are selling for about $250 now. I'm sure you could rent one for $20 or $30 a day, but the power cutter wouldn't be much more to rent.

LUVMBDiesels · #6 04-30-2009, 09:52 PM

If you are going to build raised beds you might be able to just build on top of the existing sod. I would go with raised beds of at least 8 inches deep.

Start with a base of gravel and then put in the top soil...

KarTek · #7 04-30-2009, 09:55 PM

You can spray the area with Roundup (unless you or the wife is trying to go strictly "no chemicals"). One of the uses of Roundup is to sterilize soil in preparation for planting. Follow the instructions on the bottle.

After the grass is dead, you can do as "Squabble" suggests and till it under. The organic material will help enrich the soil.

sunedog · #8 04-30-2009, 10:18 PM

I was a fan of Mel Bartholomew and his Square Foot Gardening movement when he had a gardening show on PBS in the 1980's. I still have a 4' X 4' raised bed where I grow tomatoes, peppers, carrots, lettuce and flowers.

Check out his site for good info on raised bed gardening.
http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

Wodnek · #9 04-30-2009, 11:00 PM

You can get railroad ties and line a raised bed right over the grass and just get some yards of new black topsoil.

Squabble · #10 05-01-2009, 06:47 AM

if you want to stay natural and organic, avoid the round up method as well as the railroad ties as they were treated with chemicals to stop rot, and that will leak into your garden and veggies. if you do make raised beds, buy man-made pre-fab raised bed materials or untreated lumber. and just like LUVMBDiesels said, if you make your raised beds high enough, you don't need to till anything. i would suggest mowing the grass under them at your mowers lowest setting, just to be sure.

you can also use thick tarp over the area you want to use and tarp it off for a few months to a year. when you take the tarp off, all the weeds and grass will be dead and the sod will be soft enough to turn over into the ground. but time is NOT on your side it looks....

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunedog

I was a fan of Mel Bartholomew and his Square Foot Gardening movement when he had a gardening show on PBS in the 1980's.

is that the Victory Garden guy? everyone should check that guy out too if that's not him. the victory garden show that was on PBS before i was born was a great source of good old time tried and true gardening info. there is a book out there "someone's Victory Garden" it's called, whoever that guy was.

EDIT: it's Crockett's Victory Garden. great book, probably the best i own as the info is in plain english and space and free time seem to be focuses of the book. i've tried roadale's gardening books and info but they only use the freaking LATIN word for most plants and veggies. VERY annoying.

SwampYankee · #11 05-01-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squabble

if you want to stay natural and organic, avoid the round up method as well as the railroad ties as they were treated with chemicals to stop rot, and that will leak into your garden and veggies. if you do make raised beds, buy man-made pre-fab raised bed materials or untreated lumber. and just like LUVMBDiesels said, if you make your raised beds high enough, you don't need to till anything. i would suggest mowing the grass under them at your mowers lowest setting, just to be sure.

you can also use thick tarp over the area you want to use and tarp it off for a few months to a year. when you take the tarp off, all the weeds and grass will be dead and the sod will be soft enough to turn over into the ground. but time is NOT on your side it looks....

I was going to say tarp it, like Squabble said, but it depends on your time frame. Once everything has turned yellow, till it under and go from there. You might still want to consider building some raised beds so you can get a few inches of good soil mix on top of that newly tilled soil only because when you till the soil you bring decades-worth of weed and grass seeds up to the surface that have been dormant in the soil awaiting their opportunity to germinate. Since you want to go the organic route, just planting directly into the newly tilled soil MAY result in a load of handweeding.

The sod-cutter is good option if you want to speed the process up by a week and a half and not break your back.

toomany MBZ · #12 05-01-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squabble

is that the Victory Garden guy? everyone should check that guy out too if that's not him. the victory garden show that was on PBS before i was born was a great source of good old time tried and true gardening info. there is a book out there "someone's Victory Garden" it's called, whoever that guy was.

EDIT: it's Crockett's Victory Garden. great book, probably the best i own as the info is in plain english and space and free time seem to be focuses of the book. i've tried roadale's gardening books and info but they only use the freaking LATIN word for most plants and veggies. VERY annoying.

You're edit is correct, I have a book "The Victory Garden The Essential Companion" it's three VG books combined. There were a few hosts, Jim Wilson, Bob Thomson, Roger Swain and the original, Jim Crockett. A number of others followed, now they're showing re runs.
It discusses raised beds, but not walled in. Depending on how far you want to go with it = how much energy you're willing to put into it. A LOT of work is involved. They start by removing the sod as previously mentioned, by hand if you're going small.

SwampYankee · #13 05-01-2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squabble

is that the Victory Garden guy? everyone should check that guy out too if that's not him. the victory garden show that was on PBS before i was born was a great source of good old time tried and true gardening info. there is a book out there "someone's Victory Garden" it's called, whoever that guy was.

Are you thinking of Roger Swain?

EDIT: Missed your EDIT.

Roger is the one I remember growing up.

SwampYankee · #14 05-01-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunedog

I was a fan of Mel Bartholomew and his Square Foot Gardening movement when he had a gardening show on PBS in the 1980's. I still have a 4' X 4' raised bed where I grow tomatoes, peppers, carrots, lettuce and flowers.

Check out his site for good info on raised bed gardening.
http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

That's a great site! The book has certainly seen a resurgence, too!

79-240d-project · #15 05-01-2009, 03:03 PM

Gardening is very worth the work it takes to get started. I pull over $2000.00
a year of the best tasting vegies out of my own backyard.

Rent a good sod cutter and set the depth of the cut to the deepest. Cut out your patches. Build your containment. DO NOT USE RR TIES OR PRESSURE TREATED LUMBER! Brick or stone lasts the longest but lumber is fine. Cedar is best but expensive and it is hard to find 2 x 12's. Concrete form stakes work well but rebar is pretty cheap. Build your boxes and the stakes on the outside will keep it all together.

Till the soil in the box. Remove as much of the grass root system as possible. This will help prevent the return of the grass. Depending on the new height of your box you will need to add some soil.

The key to any good garden is the soil. Your soil will not be the best, it will need some work.

Add mushroom compost and till it in well.
Bio Live - see picture below. Follow directions.
Sugar - 2 lbs/100 sq.ft. Feeds bacteria to help break down compost.
Epsom Salts - 1 lbs/100 sq.ft. Minerals
Garden Gypsum - Follow directions on box. Minerals and soil conditioner.

Till it all up again. Plant your crops. Water well and enjoy, it is worth the work.

Another good source of info is Jerry Baker. He has some good natural methods for growing anything.

Good luck!