Public Roads, Public Parks, and the Public Health Care Option

[RichC]

Public Roads
Public Parks
and the
Public Health care Option

By Rich C.

Yesterday I found myself on a public sidewalk, next to a public road, near a public park, holding
public health care option sign.

I wanted to see for my self, some of the craziness thats been on TV.
While I was there taking in the sights, engrossed in what was going on.

I got to thinking about how many social programs that we have in the United States.
And how much we really depend on them.

I realized that a lot of the things we take for granted, like the water we drink, the toilet we flush, and the trash we throw away are all taken care of by social programs.

We drive on public streets, taking our children to public schools or the public library
We rely on public servants like the police the fire department, and the military to help keep us safe.

Not to mention the countless other programs we barely think of unless we need them, like Social Security, the Food and Drug Administration or the Veterans Administration.

Heck, everything about our government is a social program.
And everyone there, from the president himself to white house pages, are all public servants, and on the public payroll.

I was just standing there thinking for a while with my sign in my hand.
When noises from the other side of the street attracted my attention.
Someone from a passing car yelled something out the window, and other people started yelling back.
Something about Socialism destroying America.

I wondered if the people on the other side of the street understood the irony of holding an anti public health care option sign while standing on one of the most successful social programsin America.
The public highway system.

But I guess this is still a free county, and they have every right to be there.
I was glad they were. At least they were participating in this thing we call a Democracy.
Its more than I had been doing for a good long while.

The next time you turn on the faucet, take out the trash or hear a siren in the distance think
about all the good things public options already do for us.
And think about supporting the public health care option.

Come on out to the next health care rally, I'll meet you there.
Or contact your local congress person.
Because we can do great things, if we work together.
Yes we can.

[AustinsCE]

I can accomplish all of those things, and sometimes do, with better efficiency and productivity privately if the world's (and history's) largest armed government didn't claim monopoly on it all. I don't have any empty slogans to back it up, sadly.

[MS Fowler]

Maybe the question is, " How much public stuff SHOULD there be?"
Or maybe, " Is there a better use for the public funds that do all that stuff?". Could any of it be dome better by private enterprise?"

[AustinsCE]

My thoughts, and I've never heard it proposed anywhere exactly, is simply un-incorporate, all government park and recreation area. That way, nobody has claim to it, everyone can use it, and any secret installations now become transparency of government. Then these private co-ops, or whomever, can come in and with local ballot measures approve any public use establishment, such as raceway or dirt track, campground commons building, ski resorts, even a community garden, and then much of that can be farmed out to local, again ballot approved, sponsors for restaurants or special events so that no new tax needs to be levied. Put a time limit to be renewed on all projects or limitations of use of 2 years and the measure is still desired, it continues to be funded.

It also creates a useful measure for community service deployment, instead of pointless grandstanding by politicians claiming to affect change by using babysitting or cleaning litter boxes at the SPCA to mask doing anything that actually matters. Included in the service program are any teenagers or vagrants wishing to cause damage or take up residence. Enforced by private security motivated by the fact that if enough complaints are filed, and sustained, they lose the contract. Bear with me, foreign concept this - accountability...

Voluntary involvement always trumps 'I've got a gun, a ticket book, and a brick room with a cast iron bar door, you even get a roommate named Jed who likes men when he's drunk, and that's why he's here'.

Ditto with roads. Remove the half of the price of a gallon of gas that is taxation, and people can set up a private contract with maintenance companies in localized districts. Everyone is encouraged to contribute to the funding or drive through craters, if they can make it at all, but best of all there's now accountability and if the road workers are hiring 10 people to stand around and hold a sign, they don't get paid. Believe it or not, there are people who don't "pay their fair share" now with threat of imprisonment and death even, and it's pretty childish to use that as an excuse to think that enough people won't contribute willingly.

Since this is a nation of sniveling children, they can even get little banana stickers, or gold stars for contribution amounts to put on their bumpers informing everyone driving behind them how wonderful they are, inclue a property tax reductions until those are abolished.

It's actually very simple and in fact, a "regressive" system. Strangely, one that actually works. You know, because, it's the one everybody engages in every single day in almost everything they do. It also prevents monopolies by relieving the government any power over business.

[Hatterasguy]

Trash and water are a profitable business.

Taxpayers are already broke, and the government is running deep into the red. We can't afford public healthcare.

[RichC]

Taco Bell textbooks in our schools ???

The KFC Yellostone National Park ?

[AustinsCE]

Originally Posted by RichC

Taco Bell textbooks in our schools ???

The KFC Yellostone National Park ?

What school was it Rockefeller got started?

And imminent domain only happens for 'national security' or some other "necessary" purpose

Denial is why I quit posting, it looks like far too many are taking advantage of the "free" public schooling.

[pawoSD]

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Trash and water are a profitable business.

Taxpayers are already broke, and the government is running deep into the red. We can't afford public healthcare.

Not around here its not. We have a public water/sewer system that only charges a rate high enough to cover their yearly operating costs/budget. It is an excellent system, and Grand Rapids has some of the cleanest tap water in the country/world. We were even the first to add fluoride and massively reduce cavities.

Trash is both a public and private option. The city runs a very inexpensive public trash system (non-profit), about $1.75-2 or so to throw away a big 50 gallon bag of trash. There are several private companies as well. Proof that public and private can operate just fine alongside each other. I generally use the public option.


Mowing the right of ways along highways is done to keep visibility up, and to keep things from looking like a strip of pavement through a forest or prairie! Duh.

Look at how much $$ they put into public appearance services in Germany, that is one beautiful/clean looking place.

The first post in this thread summed it up perfectly. People use tons of public things every day, perhaps they should stop and think about that. Everyone gets equal use of the sidewalks, roads, freeways and parks....so why not healthcare too? It should at least be available to those who want it. I'd sure be taking part in it if it came into existence. All the idiots who think it is the downfall of the country are just that, idiots. They can keep their expensive private healthcare if they so please, but let the rest of us who can't afford or obtain such services have a public option.

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by AustinsCE

My thoughts, and I've never heard it proposed anywhere exactly, is simply un-incorporate, all government park and recreation area. That way, nobody has claim to it, everyone can use it, and any secret installations now become transparency of government. Then these private co-ops, or whomever, can come in and with local ballot measures approve any public use establishment, such as raceway or dirt track, campground commons building, ski resorts, even a community garden, and then much of that can be farmed out to local, again ballot approved, sponsors for restaurants or special events so that no new tax needs to be levied. Put a time limit to be renewed on all projects or limitations of use of 2 years and the measure is still desired, it continues to be funded.

I'm confused. Are you saying the government should give up ownership of the land, but not sell it to private interests? If so, then the land is free for anyone to walk upon, build a shelter and call it home. Furthermore, if the government is to lose its park lands, I see no reason why it should keep any land. Thus anyone with enough money could conceivably buy a state.

Remove the half of the price of a gallon of gas that is taxation, and people can set up a private contract with maintenance companies in localized districts. Everyone is encouraged to contribute to the funding or drive through craters, if they can make it at all, but best of all there's now accountability and if the road workers are hiring 10 people to stand around and hold a sign, they don't get paid. Believe it or not, there are people who don't "pay their fair share" now with threat of imprisonment and death even, and it's pretty childish to use that as an excuse to think that enough people won't contribute willingly.

What about highways? There are thousands of miles of road that are in between towns. And thousands of towns that even with 50% participation (a ludicrously high example) could not afford road repair. Not to mention, the road already exists. If the government isn't going to own the road, who is going to buy it from them? And why would I contribute to the maintenance of the road if there are others allowed to use it who do not? And who allows or disallows them?

It also prevents monopolies by relieving the government any power over business.

This is nonsensical. In the history of this country, let alone the world, it has been shown that a lack of government oversight results in monopoly.

[kerry]

Can anyone point to a modern state that has provided universal health care without a public option?

[MTUpower]

Originally Posted by tankdriver

What about highways? There are thousands of miles of road that are in between towns. And thousands of towns that even with 50% participation (a ludicrously high example) could not afford road repair. Not to mention, the road already exists.

Who pays for the roads now... the tooth fairy?

Originally Posted by tankdriver

If the government isn't going to own the road, who is going to buy it from them? And why would I contribute to the maintenance of the road if there are others allowed to use it who do not? And who allows or disallows them?

Excellent arguement... I think I'll use it when talking about those that use any service that they do not pay for but I and my kids do. You'll make a fine right winger with lines like that.

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Who pays for the roads now... the tooth fairy?

If you read the post I quoted, you will see AustinsCE wishes to do away with taxes.

Excellent arguement... I think I'll use it when talking about those that use any service that they do not pay for but I and my kids do. You'll make a fine right winger with lines like that.

I'm glad you liked it. Regarding the post it refers to, I hope you see what that attitude accomplsihes.

[cmac2012]

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Maybe the question is, " How much public stuff SHOULD there be?"
Or maybe, " Is there a better use for the public funds that do all that stuff?". Could any of it be dome better by private enterprise?"

I've heard many times that our National Park system is the envy of Europeans. The finest land over there for that sort of thing has long since been taken care of by private enterprise.

Privatizing military force in Iraq is not looking too good. Xe guys have pulled some pretty gnarly crap. Neo-crusaders, going over to waste hajis for the glory of God. Privatizing troop maintenance has resulted in 13 soldiers dead - electrocuted in showers. Mess halls with several types of pizza and many flavors of ice cream available. All of that stuff delivered at some cost in $$ and risk to life. Not sure it's such a good thing to make it as much like home as possible for our guys over there. Might tend to get too comfortable. Starts to look like we're colonizing the place.

Universities used to be private enterprise only. Only the elite could go to such places. We see how returned vets were treated in an atmosphere of almost exclusively private enterprise after WW1. Many Daddy Warbucks types came out of that but many, many more vets languished in poverty for years. After WW2, a bonafide socialist program, the GI Bill, provided much better treatment for returned vets and ended up being one of the best public investments of all time.

I don't see the private sector ever doing something as effective and far-reaching as the GI Bill.

[MS Fowler]

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Universities used to be private enterprise only. Only the elite could go to such places. We see how returned vets were treated in an atmosphere of almost exclusively private enterprise after WW1. Many Daddy Warbucks types came out of that but many, many more vets languished in poverty for years. After WW2, a bonafide socialist program, the GI Bill, provided much better treatment for returned vets and ended up being one of the best public investments of all time.

I don't see the private sector ever doing something as effective and far-reaching as the GI Bill.

Yes, by all means LOOK at the universities.
Look how the cost of education has far exceeded the rate of inflation. They give themselves lavish payraises, and then cry to the government for subsidies.
GI Bill was/ is great.
Look how universities in the 1950s were furnished, and the life-styles of the professors, and compare to today. Everything is much more lavish.

Not to say that all schools follow this pattern--there are some schools that keep prices down, and faculty not overpaid. But the large, "name-brand_ universities have gotten out of hand.

[MS Fowler]

Here's a question for you, What purpose is served by the mowing of highway right of Ways? How are the roads improved by this "public" service?