Universal health care in Ireland..........

[John Doe]

...I was getting ready for work and listening to cnn in the background. Apparently they just had a big cancer summit in Ireland over the past few days. cnn's Dr. Sanjay Gupta was there and corralled the Public Health Minister for Ireland over in to the corner for an interview. Apparently Ireland was a European holdout, and just went through the "reform" of their healthcare a few years back and went with 'healthcare for all.'

The Irish fellow didn't even try to defend his own system. I waited for him to say, "We're still working the kinks out....", but I didn't hear it.

Off the top of my head, I recall that the Irish guy said they spent 40% of their collected tax revenue in 2008 on public healthcare, to the detriment of many other services. This part is fuzzy, but I also believe he said in the order of 2/3 of the Country still paid for some partial or full insurance, because the public system sucks.

The hip replacement waiting time, for instance was months, ect......

The healthcare thing isn't going to affect me directly in the slightest, unless my taxes go up to fund the program, but I recommend trying to find a transcript of Dr. Gupta's interview of Ireland's Health Minister to you rich guys left over from the 60's who are staring knee & hip replacements and bypasses in the face.

Off to work. All the protesting I can afford today.

[tankdriver]

We don't have to copy Ireland

[Medmech]

In other news, the VA has a 400,000 case backlog.

[JollyRoger]

Originally Posted by Medmech

In other news, the VA has a 400,000 case backlog.

Weren't you the one extolling it and how-dare-Obama-mess-with-it-ing it a few months back?

[JollyRoger]

Well let's see, it seems the US spends around $5200 per capita on health care, while Ireland is about $3000, and we spend 15%+ GDP on health care, while they spend 8%+ of their GDP.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/In-the-Literature/2006/May/Health-Care-Spending-and-Use-of-Information-Technology-in-OECD-Countries.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

The wiki cites a survey, which is linked, showing that 90% of the population is satisfied with their healthcare system.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Well let's see, it seems the US spends around $5200 per capita on health care, while Ireland is about $3000, and we spend 15%+ GDP on health care, while they spend 8%+ of their GDP.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/In-the-Literature/2006/May/Health-Care-Spending-and-Use-of-Information-Technology-in-OECD-Countries.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

The wiki cites a survey, which is linked, showing that 90% of the population is satisfied with their healthcare system.

Is Wiki that thing where socially mal-adjusted armchair world savers spend all day contributing their vast energy putting together explanations of stuff on the internet? Maybe someone needs to tell the Irish Health Minister about that thing! He'd likely be shocked!!

[Medmech]

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Weren't you the one extolling it and how-dare-Obama-mess-with-it-ing it a few months back?

No, you've known me long enough to know I have been very critical of how the Republicans have cut VA funding and benefits, despite urban legend Repubs are no friend of Veterans.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by tankdriver

We don't have to copy Ireland

Yeah, your're right. It would be stupid to study historical models, and smart to start out cold, thinking we can make it work where others can't. If you watch the interview, you'll note the highlighted comparison of what is being proposed here vs. what Ireland has done

Just food for thought--I think that Gupta guy did a pretty good interview. It was very informative to me, and I forgot to mention the part that gave me the most pause: apparently the people that buy the supp. policies, are the people that want to be able to choose their doctors, which in some cases they have had all their lives. That may not mean much to someone who doesn't have children, or has been a welfare recipient or public clinic client their whole lives, but it means a lot to me. I certainly see where someone without health insurance would not have much concern, and would be lucky just to get a doctor period, but if I'm going to pay for it, I want to be able to choose.

[HuskyMan]

along these same lines, I've read that some U.S. hospitals along the U.S./Canadian border regularly receive visits from Canadian citizens. seems Canadians are placed on a waiting list for much needed surgeries. they come to the U.S. and can get the needed surgery NOW.

Socialism: A chicken in every pot, only the government supplied chicken died of bacterial infections. eat up kids, don't leave any government chicken on your plate!

[dannym]

I've always wondered what model the new health care system is being modeled on.
It wouldn't supprise me at all to find out the arrogant *******s in Washington started from scratch.

Danny

[Mistress]

I can't tell you how many patients I have seen from Europe who have "public healthcare" and couldn't wait 6 years to have reconstruction done, so they opted to pay out of poocket and come to the US instead.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

along these same lines, I've read that some U.S. hospitals along the U.S./Canadian border regularly receive visits from Canadian citizens. seems Canadians are placed on a waiting list for much needed surgeries. they come to the U.S. and can get the needed surgery NOW.

Socialism: A chicken in every pot, only the government supplied chicken died of bacterial infections. eat up kids, don't leave any government chicken on your plate!

I've told this about 50 times here, but one of my best friends is an expat that bounces from the Netherlands to Germany and now lives in France, and while in Germany, as a full-time employee with full benefits, he went to Thailand and paid cash to have surgery during his (paid, six week, state mandated) vacation time, because he was going to have to wait for over a year for surgery to remove a tumor on his neck. The guy is a reporter, and had this brown golf ball growing out of his neck, and he was about to be transferred to a desk.

Seems like "A Chicken in Every Pot, a Car in Every Garage", was a quote misattributed to Herbert Hoover, but in fact was a Republican Party jingle, supposed to tout prosperity of a Republican regime right before the depression hit. I don't think throwing around the terms Socialism and Communism helps point out the problems with the healthcare reform proposals. Kind of thins down the argument to the tone of right wing email forwards.

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by John Doe

Yeah, your're right. It would be stupid to study historical models, and smart to start out cold, thinking we can make it work where others can't. If you watch the interview, you'll note the highlighted comparison of what is being proposed here vs. what Ireland has done

Just food for thought--I think that Gupta guy did a pretty good interview. It was very informative to me, and I forgot to mention the part that gave me the most pause: apparently the people that buy the supp. policies, are the people that want to be able to choose their doctors, which in some cases they have had all their lives. That may not mean much to someone who doesn't have children, or has been a welfare recipient or public clinic client their whole lives, but it means a lot to me. I certainly see where someone without health insurance would not have much concern, and would be lucky just to get a doctor period, but if I'm going to pay for it, I want to be able to choose.

Is it studying a historical model, or is it watching one interview about one country's system as seen through the eyes of one official?
It is always good to study as many systems as you can, and instead of choosing one, try and discover a way to mitigate the downsides of others.

As far as I know, no one here is proposing not being able to choose your own doctor. Except current insurance companies, who can and sometimes do hand you a list of acceptable doctors.

[tonkovich]

Originally Posted by tankdriver

Is it studying a historical model, or is it watching one interview about one country's system as seen through the eyes of one official?
It is always good to study as many systems as you can, and instead of choosing one, try and discover a way to mitigate the downsides of others.

As far as I know, no one here is proposing not being able to choose your own doctor. Except current insurance companies, who can and sometimes do hand you a list of acceptable doctors.

1. sanjay gupta is a shill for the drug companies and health insurance industries. do your homework

2. anecdotal evidence is wonderful; it's just anecdotal though. god forbid we actually know the facts.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by tonkovich

1. sanjay gupta is a shill for the drug companies and health insurance industries. do your homework

2. anecdotal evidence is wonderful; it's just anecdotal though. god forbid we actually know the facts.

I sue insurance companies and drug companies as well, and have never heard his name come up as such. What gives you such great insight? You in the biz, too?