House Heating Question - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

280EZRider · #1 10-25-2009, 01:12 PM

We all know that once the system has been installed as new, hot water/steam radiators are the most efficient of all home heating systems. So my question is this: Has anyone ever used an electric oil-filled radiator in each room in place of a FAG system? And if so, how bad was the electric bill? And finally, do these oil-filled radiators have an internal pump or not?

C Sean Watts · #2 10-25-2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280EZRider

We all know that once the system has been installed as new, hot water/steam radiators are the most efficient of all home heating systems. So my question is this: Has anyone ever used an electric oil-filled radiator in each room in place of a FAG system? And if so, how bad was the electric bill? And finally, do these oil-filled radiators have an internal pump or not?

My grandmother used to use one. It wasn't any better than other heating element design space heaters of the same power. It did seem to work much better in smaller rooms, though.

kerry · #3 10-25-2009, 01:23 PM

No pumps. The relative costs depends on the relative price of gas vs. electricity so I don't think any answer will be universal.
I have gas hot water radiators in my house. However, it is zoned and I don't heat the upstairs where we sleep. If the temperatures upstairs start dropping into the 30's I'll turn on oil filled electric radiators in our two bedrooms rather than heating the whole upstairs. Doesn't seem to drive up the bill excessively, although we typically only use them under those circumstances for a few hours a night.
My boiler is slightly undersized for my house. (I bought it used cheap) so when it get to about 20 below zero it has to work hard to keep the house in the mid 60's. I considered installing a higher BTU boiler but concluded it wasn't worth the effort. For the few days every few years where it gets that cold. oil filled electric radiators are an adequate supplement.

toomany MBZ · #4 10-25-2009, 02:29 PM

Shortly after I had a new gas furnace installed, had to pull a line in from the street, the price of NG went through the roof. Here the elec. is relatively cheap, so I got a couple of those, they work fine.
As kerry mentions each scenario will be different due to various costs of energy in your area.
I do keep one in the garage.

mpolli · #5 10-25-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280EZRider

hot water/steam radiators are the most efficient of all home heating systems

Technically this is not true, if by efficiency you are talking about: (energy converted to heat)/(energy purchased). Only electricity turns almost 100% of the energy you purchase into heat. The reason it is not used more is because it usually costs more. Point source (space) heaters can be cost effective since they put the heat exactly where it is needed. Keep in mind that in electric heaters "watts is watts" so the technology is irrelevant from that point of view. One 1500W heater will not make more heat than another 1500W heater, even if the advertisement seems to suggest it will. I like the oil filled radiator kind since they have no fan so are quite and reliable. I have a neat one with a remote wireless thermostat, but they don't make that anymore that I know of. They do not have a pump. The oil circulates by "gravity". Your results will depend on a lot of variables. The main ones are the efficiency of your FA system (which depends on a lot of things), and of course your costs for gas and electricity. I do something similar to what you describe, and the savings depends on how you set the heaters. If they are running all the time then you won't save much. If you just heat where you need it and keep the temp reasonable then you might. If you have a wife then this is likely a bad plan...

aklim · #6 10-25-2009, 03:44 PM

Have you thought of asking your utility company? I know the one we have here has thermal imaging stuff to help you see where your house is leaking heat. They also give advice on different heating systems. Perhaps you can try them?

raymr · #7 10-25-2009, 05:37 PM

Its still resistance heating no matter how you slice it. It's the most inefficient way to heat a space when you consider the energy lost at each stage of conversion and transmission from the power supply to your heater. But if your rates are low, it might still be a deal. Just don't bank on it long term.

280EZRider · #8 10-25-2009, 05:58 PM

I appreciate all the input. Here in Cincinnati, I am held hostage by Duke bloody-expensive Energy. Last month I was able to switch electric suppliers from Duke to Dominion - approximately half the price of Duke, even though they still deliver the power. Gas is still the same - HIGH.

I have a couple of electric space heaters, but they seem to blow more than heat; hence, my interest in oil radiators.

mpolli · #9 10-25-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

Its still resistance heating no matter how you slice it. It's the most inefficient way to heat a space when you consider the energy lost at each stage of conversion and transmission from the power supply to your heater.

Could you be more specific about the energy lost and where? It is safe to say that about 99% of the electricity you buy gets turned into heat in a space heater (minus any for a fan if it has one).

Crazy_Nate · #10 10-25-2009, 05:59 PM

I don't have any insight on specific heaters, however...

Insulation, insulation, insulation

A couple of summers ago, I added 12+ inches of blown cellulose type insulation into my mother's town-house attic. It has since paid for itself numerous times (summer and winter). It wasn't difficult at all, seal up any holes with foam (in a can), install some new soffit baffles (keeps the insulation out of the vents), and then spend the better part of an afternoon with a helper blowing the stuff in.

t walgamuth · #11 10-26-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy_Nate

I don't have any insight on specific heaters, however...

Insulation, insulation, insulation

A couple of summers ago, I added 12+ inches of blown cellulose type insulation into my mother's town-house attic. It has since paid for itself numerous times (summer and winter). It wasn't difficult at all, seal up any holes with foam (in a can), install some new soffit baffles (keeps the insulation out of the vents), and then spend the better part of an afternoon with a helper blowing the stuff in.

I agree with the concept but prefer fiberglass insulation.

BobK · #12 10-26-2009, 08:00 AM

I thnk electric is running a bit over 13cents in our area (half way between Cincinnati, Oh. and Lexington, Ky. I heat a big house and have electric baseboard heat (17 thermostats!). If I really want to keep the place warm thoughout, the bill can head towards four digits! There is actually a separate 225A panel and meter for the electric heat. My little kerosene heaters cost 40% less to run per BTU. Yes, I'm working on sealing up the house. Project down the road is geothermal heat pump.

raymr · #13 10-26-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobK

I thnk electric is running a bit over 13cents in our area (half way between Cincinnati, Oh. and Lexington, Ky. I heat a big house and have electric baseboard heat (17 thermostats!). If I really want to keep the place warm thoughout, the bill can head towards four digits! There is actually a separate 225A panel and meter for the electric heat. My little kerosene heaters cost 40% less to run per BTU. Yes, I'm working on sealing up the house. Project down the road is geothermal heat pump.

Seems you don't have gas service available? I would be checking out wood stoves or even a propane gas fireplace or 2 for those chilly mornings. Friends of ours have a geothermal system and their house has never been toasty warm. I don't know if thats typical - the vents only put out lukewarm air.

BobK · #14 10-26-2009, 12:35 PM

most heatpumps, when operating in heat pump mode (not using backup resistance) will only put out air slightly warmer than the air in the room. They don't have the several hundred degree heat exchanger found in a fuel fired furnace. That doesn't bother me as I had a rather good air-source heat pump at my old house. Gas is available at the street, but while the wholesale price of gas (close to the wellhead) has gone down, the retail price we pay is still up there and likely to stay as high as the suppliers can get away with. The grond coupled system looks the best to me, just want to be sure to get the biggest ground loop I can afford(or maybe a bit bigger than that!). House was built for caol fireplaces and I have actually thought of putting in a couple of small coal stoves for supplimental heat. Eventually, as I tighten up the house, that could be a problem.

pawoSD · #15 10-25-2009, 06:02 PM

My parents tried it last year by using three oil filled radiators vs. running the furnace....and while it raised their electric bill by about $75-90 a month....it kept the furnace from being needed at all (saving about $200+ a month) It did not work as well when it gets real cold out though. But through December that method worked fine.

Currently we have so much computer equipment running in the basement for his business that it actually has reduced the amount of furnace run-time needed to keep the house warm!

Multiple servers blasting out heat keeps things toasty.