My dad went to Germany to get better care at a fraction of the cost. Last year my father fell and broke his femur right neat the hip. Kaiser put in a metal cuff with several screws (one of which has broken already). Someone has yet to explain how a 84 year old mad breaks a titanium screw in his leg. The Dr who put it in said the broken screw is not causing the pain. The Dr in Germany said it should not haven been used in the first place, the screw should not have broken (thinks the Dr screwed up) and it needs to all come out. The removal and hospital care would only come out to about $5k-$6k but he would be over there alone, without family for several weeks before he could travel. How much do you think it would cost here?

I had hernia surgery early this year. The hospital wanted $1250 from me for my share. I was in at 6a and home by 12p. A few months later I get two bills in the mail for $1800 total. That's $3k. My mom was in Berlin and broke her elbow. Had surgery to put in 2 plates and several screws, 11 day hospital stay in semi-private room, PT, IV-drugs ... the whole 9 yards. Cost was under $5k. My share of a 3hr stay for a simple hernia was $3k.

People are going abroad more and more for elective and life saving surgery because they can get superior care and treatment at a fraction of the cost. One article I read said that health care companies here in the US are concerned that they will be going the way of other US corporations that have been out services and out priced by foreign competitors.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/18/health/webmd/main2104425.shtml

http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/98045/amid_health_crisis,_more_americans_going_abroad_for_care/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/health/21patient.html

This is why you go out of the US to get treatment. It's cheaper, better (in most cases) and you don't have to feed the monster.

If the truck is heading for you, and it's in your lane, ignoring it is what really sucks... :D

It is cheaper because somebody already depressed the raw cost and you don't pay the other incidentals. You didn't have to pay for the taxes and what not that indirectly support the German system, did you?

How is this different from me having an extra membership at the gun range and give it to you? You get to shoot at the club, not have to pay the dues, attend meetings, etc, etc.

That is not the point. Their costs are lower than the US by a huge amount. Enough so that someone can go abroad, have a procedure, VC and still save money compared to having it done here in the US. Why is irrelevant. Either we fix our broken system or it will go away. If the Europeans and Asians were really smart, they would design a system that would allow us to 'buy in' to their system for health care.

there is an old saying: "There is the PRICE, and then there is the COST".

how much does it COST you to go to a incompetent doctor? of course, how does one find out if a doctor is incompetent or not? sometimes it is difficult, but a quick check of the state's medical complaints file might not hurt either. otherwise, you might find yourself in the hands of "Dr. Death" and not realize it until it is too late......

just an FYI, if someone cannot afford to travel to Germany, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester is a great alternative. they assign a TEAM of physicians to your case. it's the old "two heads are definitely better than one" idea. they review your X-rays, MRI's, CTs, blood work up, test results, etc together as a TEAM and then co-jointly make decisions concerning the best course of treatment. several of the major airlines offer discounted air fares for families traveling to and from Rochester. of course, for common colds and flues, etc etc, the local doctors are fine, but if something SERIOUS, it just might be worth the cost of a plane fare and hotel to allow the medical professionals at the Mayo Clinic to take a look.....

the Germans roll new technology out at a much faster pace than the United States. here, the FDA has to test something to death (and make sure the current drug maker makes all the $$$$$ they need) PRIOR to releasing a new drug or procedure. thus, there are procedures available in Germany TODAY that probably won't hit our shores for another 10++ years. the system is working,

I guess that really depends if the truck is real or imaginary. I think you guys have invented a whole fleet of imaginary trucks to be afraid of. Boo! :eek:

If I did not have insurance at the time and needed to have my hernia repaired it would have been far less expensive fr me to go to Germany and have it taken care of than here in the US. The bill to the insurance Co was over $15k. Given how the hospitals/doctors screw the uninsured it would have been a whole lot more for an uninsured person. There is no reason it should cost that much.

"Why" is relevant when you are trying to make those comparisons. If my dad owns a Chevy dealership, I can get a break buying Chevy. His mechanics can fix it for me very cheaply for cash. He can get me parts for cost. I might even be able to tap into the big gas tank they have for their own use. Therefore, I can also conclude that a Chevy is a great car. Cheap to maintain.

No, they are smart which is why they are not letting us buy into their system. I read that the 65% of the people are overweight. 40% of stomach cancers are linked to obesity. 65% of heart problems are linked to obesity too. Why would I let you buy in and trash my national system with that? I suppose you think they are stupid enough to play against you (the house) with a stacked deck too?

I'm sorry. How does delaying the release of a new treatment help the drug maker? I spent 1 million dollars to research something. The longer it takes to get on the market, the more my money is tied up and I can't get compensation. I would think that the faster that the drug is released, the faster they make their money.

The problem is the Americans don't want ANY issues with the drug. If we signed off on it, they would gladly ease the standards. Problem is we want it both ways. We want the hell tested out of it and we want it now. Did I forget, we want it to be cheap too. BTW, a helping of fries would be fantastic. When a drug gets pulled off, they not only lose the money they might have made. They also have the lawyers advertising on national TV to sue them for the bad drug because a few people have had bad effects. Which is why we have the boilerplate precautions on it.

Imaginary like the SS money or other pools of money they dip into to make ends meet when borrowing will not suffice?

There is a reason. We tried the universal coverage in the past when we insisted that the hospitals cover those that cannot pay and have the same liabilities as a paying customer.

Let me ask you this. If you, in your work had to cover paying and non paying customers, what would you do? Charge the same or stick it to those that can pay?

Try to change the system.

With what? The drunk on the corner of 5th and Main?

Edit: that might be an improvement. After all, that drunk has no past history. OTOH, the current crop have a track record of lying and cheating. You were so happy when Bush was out because you thought he had lied to you. Now, you want to turn more money over to a bunch of liars.

So if your spouse was a lying cheating whore, you would give her your million dollar estate in the will and also take a multi million dollar life insurance policy with her as the sole beneficiary? After all, today is a new day and this time, things will be different, right? Hows about you show me different first.

Finally you seem to get what is wrong with the current system.

No, not finally. I knew that all along. Why do you think I advocate a "No pay, no play" system? The current problems are a result of their first attempt at universal coverage where those that cannot afford it still get care. Much like what we are doing in round 2. Much like what we will be doing in round 3, 4 and 5......

This is the same principle of what happened. X can't pay so we stick Y and Z with the bill. Now Y and Z are upset so we stick A, B and C with the bill as well.