I also don't understand that, but I guess that makes me more of an agnostic. Personally, I just don't bother with anything that I can't prove or disprove based on evidence. It just doesn't affect me one way or the other, so I don't care. I have trouble understanding the motivations of "hard core" atheists who are try enlighten everyone else. What's the point, why not let people believe whatever they like?

Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion) is a bit like that, he seems hostile to religion instead of just treating it as a harmless fantasy.

Interesting interview with Frank Schaeffer author of "Crazy for God" and the son of the late evangelist Francis Schaeffer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPwGV1h4lW8&feature=PlayList&p=78835291847E82F8&index=37

Probably because his academic discipline, Biology, is the one academic discipline most under threat by both Christian and Islamic fundamentalists even in his own country.
Can anyone name one prominent conservative Christian or Muslim evolutionary biologist?

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1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
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I guess I don't find it surprising that someone who is attracted to the "comfort" of a traditional belief system would also be inclined to share an agenda with political "social conservatives." Both groups seem to favor a very strict social code that reinforces their personal beliefs and want an authority figure (real or imagined) to validate that belief system. It just seems to be the opposite of "free thinking."

I can't imagine that they are actually "threatened" by fundamentalists (at least in the U.S. or England), beyond the occasional public school district being hijacked by crazies. I can't name a prominent conservative Christian or Muslim anything (outside the area of religion). I can name plenty of U.S. politicians who pander to conservative Christians.

I am actually surprised that a sizable minority of top scientists actually claim a religious affiliation. I would have expected the percentage to be close to zero, but I remember reading someplace that a nontrivial percentage of scientific nobel laureates do identify themselves as "religious" in some way. I don't know if it's just a "social" religious affiliation or if these folks are capable of separating their scientific work from their belief system. I suspect it is the former.

That's fine, as long as the "believers" keep their beliefs to themselves and don't think they can try to ram them down every body elses throats.

Indeed. When you've spent your life being expected to accomodat them you might well become antagonistic towards them.

- Peter.

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My wife teachers 7th grade science in a public school system that has not, so far, been hijacked by crazies. However she battles conservative chrisitian bull**** on a daily basis and is expected to not be "controversial" or "disrespectful" at all times. Get's a bit trying when you have to pretend that evolution isn't really evolution so as not to "offend" the morons you're supposed to be educating.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
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2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

I agree that the current sham of trying to pass off religion as science needs to end. IMO, that's where the line is crossed and it is no longer harmless.

$$$$ is what makes them pander.

At one time, a lot of top scientists thought the sun revolved around the earth. Either way, doesn't mean much since science is about proof and religion is about faith.

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And a significant percentage of religious scientists are also fundamentalists. The Colorado School of Mines has an association for it's professors who are Christian.(Subset of a national association) That association propagates the view that the universe is 6000 yrs old. This at one of the most prestigious engineering schools in the country.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

That is fairly disappointing, but I guess being superstitious doesn't disqualify someone from teaching thermodynamics 101. I also suspect that this is mainly a U.S. phenomenon at this point. I guess I could do my job as an engineer if I believed in a magic invisible man in the sky.

I was thinking more in terms of people performing basic scientific research. I find it harder to believe that someone investigating the initial conditions of the universe or the human genome could also hold fundamentalist beliefs.

I agree. I think it's more of a cultural thing than anything else.

One of the Apollo program astronauts, can't remember which one, had a brain spasm, and apparently now believes he never went. The human brain is I think, capable of believing just about anything, without any rhyme or reason.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Consider the elephant. When it is young, you tie it up and it can't break free. Now it is grown but it still thinks it cannot break free. 2 of my dogs bear particular mention.

Vette was a 90# pit bull that could kill the 60# Shar Pei without breaking into a sweat. HOWEVER, he was the puppy when she was the grown up. He never feared another dog. Just that one till the day she died. Honey could yell at him till he peed in fear.

Molly was a 110# Rott and her "boss dog" was a 70# Pei. Till the day Molly died (6 yrs) of cancer, she was terrified of Meisha.

It's all about conditioning, I think. It is hard to break that conditioning. We heard a story about a little girl who asked her mother why she cut the ends off the X'mas ham. Mom basically said she didn't know. Grandma said it was because her pan was too small for the ham.

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I guess I agree to a point but I would have a hard time buying a airplane from an aerospace engineer who did not believe flight was possible. I mining engineer who does not understand the fundamentals of how the earth was created is a bit to 'weird' for me.

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- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

that's frightening.

and then there's this:

By Dylan T. Lovan

updated 1:22 p.m. PT, Mon., July 31, 2006
PETERSBURG, Ky. - Like most natural history museums, this one has exhibits showing dinosaurs roaming the earth. Except here, the giant reptiles share the forest with Adam and Eve.

That, of course, is contradicted by science, but that’s the point of the $25 million Creation Museum rising fast in rural Kentucky.

Its inspiration is the Bible — the literal interpretation that contends God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them just a few thousand years ago.


amd you wonder why i think we're doomed?

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