Politics and the un-initiated... - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RichC · #46 01-11-2010, 02:43 AM

X2

what Tonkovich said.

MS Fowler · #47 01-11-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonkovich

stunning! you make assertions about me that are based on...?

i love it!

uh, just for the record, this swiftly self-correcting perfect democracy neglected to make native americans citizens 'til 1912? i think. wow only 125 years ( i know, more whining. or would that be carping?) 76 years to end slavery. (just a blink of an eye, i know)

please, keep the rhetoric coming. i'm swooning. (but not self actualizing enough, i know.)

Granted that the USA has not been perfect in its past.
What system has? Seriously what government has done a perfect job of protecting the rights of all?
Its easy to throw stones.
The question is are we improving, or are we moving towards tyranny.

I have heard that major civilisations have a 200+ year life cycle. During this time they go from slavery to independence to apathy, to dependence and back to slavery. Where are we?

johnjzjz · #48 01-11-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Beck-Generally libertarian, free market, fiscal conservative. Favors low taxes and limited government. Very concerned with the scope, power, and spending habits of the federal government. I haven't heard much regarding his stance on social issues.

O'reilly-Similar to Beck on government size, spending, and regulation of the free market. More openly socially conservative, though he does support allowing gays to adopt and some other typically "liberal" ideas.

Both Beck and O'reilly have publicly stated that they are not Republicans or Democrats, though most people tend to find their views aligned much more strongly with the Republican party.

Maddow-Don't know. Only watched her show once or twice.

they wont believe that its not distorted with untruths

and its exactly what anyone who is openminded thinks as well -

except maddow to me she is a hack for whats selling today -- jz

BobK · #49 01-11-2010, 10:00 AM

for a bit more detail in deciding and understanding try this test:
http://www.politicalcompass.org

JollyRoger · #50 01-11-2010, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Beck-Generally libertarian, free market, fiscal conservative. Favors low taxes and limited government. Very concerned with the scope, power, and spending habits of the federal government. I haven't heard much regarding his stance on social issues.

O'reilly-Similar to Beck on government size, spending, and regulation of the free market. More openly socially conservative, though he does support allowing gays to adopt and some other typically "liberal" ideas.

Both Beck and O'reilly have publicly stated that they are not Republicans or Democrats, though most people tend to find their views aligned much more strongly with the Republican party.

Maddow-Don't know. Only watched her show once or twice.

Beck and O'really are Republican Party hacks. Calling Beck a "libertarian" is like calling a cat a dog.

JollyRoger · #51 01-11-2010, 10:37 AM

In a nutshell, Liberals and progressives see the government's role to be as a referee among the factions in our society, while those on the right see the government as 'the enemy'.

MS Fowler · #52 01-11-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

In a nutshell, Liberals and progressives see the government's role to be as a referee among the factions in our society, while those on the right see the government as 'the enemy'.

Gee, that is an unbiased view. Do you really view it that way?
There is a measure of truth in what you wrote. Progressives do view government as the first arbiter of differences. Conservatives would tend to view it as the arbiter of last resort. Don't you agree?

#53 01-11-2010, 11:18 AM

Personally, I think these terms have become meaningless and I try to avoid using them. Both liberal/progressive and conservative have become insults to the "other side" and cannot be used without an emotional response in most cases. IMO, trying to characterize an individual with a single word is intellectually lazy. I don not know any two thinking individuals with exactly the same views on every issue.

JollyRoger · #54 01-11-2010, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Gee, that is an unbiased view. Do you really view it that way?
There is a measure of truth in what you wrote. Progressives do view government as the first arbiter of differences. Conservatives would tend to view it as the arbiter of last resort. Don't you agree?

Come on, the truth is conservatives in this country hate government. I'd say today's crop of conservatives have more in common with Anarchism than anything else.

JollyRoger · #55 01-11-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Personally, I think these terms have become meaningless and I try to avoid using them. Both liberal/progressive and conservative have become insults to the "other side" and cannot be used without an emotional response in most cases. IMO, trying to characterize an individual with a single word is intellectually lazy. I don not know any two thinking individuals with exactly the same views on every issue.

hey! Stop trying to interfere with our black and white world views, here!

#56 01-11-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

hey! Stop trying to interfere with our black and white world views, here!

LOL

kerry · #57 01-11-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

I'd say today's crop of conservatives have more in common with Anarchism than anything else.

Most anarchists would find that comment extremely insulting partly because most of the 'current crop of conservatives' are in the employ of multi-national corporations which are the opposite of what both right and left wing anarchists hold to be the ideal social institutions.

JollyRoger · #58 01-11-2010, 01:37 PM

Perhaps, but the American right, especially the Tea Bag Right, has become so anti-government that I know find many of them closer to an anarchy position than to anything else.

MS Fowler · #59 01-11-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

Perhaps, but the American right, especially the Tea Bag Right, has become so anti-government that I know find many of them closer to an anarchy position than to anything else.

Are you presenting them fairly, or is this simply a polemic?
To say that entire political right favors anarchy is not much better than calling them racist, neo-nazi, homo-phobes who don't bathe daily.

You seem to enjoy picking the most extreme elements of the right, and then trying to characterize them as the main stream right. What does that benefit?

kerry · #60 01-11-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Are you presenting them fairly, or is this simply a polemic?
To say that entire political right favors anarchy is not much better than calling them racist, neo-nazi, homo-phobes who don't bathe daily.

You seem to enjoy picking the most extreme elements of the right, and then trying to characterize them as the main stream right. What does that benefit?

If the state politics of Colorado are any indication, I think Jolly Roger is correct. There is a substantial portion of the political right in Colorado that wants to cut taxes simply to abolish parts of the state government such as public k12schools and state colleges and universities, medicare, public housing, etc because they think all those things should be privatized. They are anarchists in the 19th century nihilist sense of destroying government to get rid of almost all of it.