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-   -   Politics and the un-initiated... (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=269069)

Skippy 01-11-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2379384)
Come on, the truth is conservatives in this country hate government. I'd say today's crop of conservatives have more in common with Anarchism than anything else.

Not true. The overwhelming majority of conservatives understand and agree that government is necessary and important. We just believe that we have a lot more of it than would be ideal.

JollyRoger 01-11-2010 02:54 PM

And where exactly does that put them on the continuum that ends at anarchy? I find what you say to be true, however you seem to define it at one static point, while I am saying that it is a position starting from where you are at, continuing on to the point of abolishing as much government as possible, a shade of gray from anarchy that one can see at any gathering of 'tea baggers'. The truth is, for the most part, these people actively hate government, they hate paying for it, they hate the people who make it work, they hate it's leaders, they hate it in the marketplace, they hate it's regulations and increasingly, they hate it's laws. Many, many of them are only a shade from anarchism at this point. There definition of government is indeed that of a limited government, it is a government that has only one job: to take care of them and their concerns, and no one else.

Billybob 01-11-2010 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2379484)
If the state politics of Colorado are any indication, I think Jolly Roger is correct. There is a substantial portion of the political right in Colorado that wants to cut taxes simply to abolish parts of the state government such as public k12schools and state colleges and universities, medicare, public housing, etc because they think all those things should be privatized. They are anarchists in the 19th century nihilist sense of destroying government to get rid of almost all of it.

Their goal is not the elimination of government is it? It appears that even from your government employee viewpoint analysis; their goal is to privatize the services presently provided by government and the elimination of government by starving it of funding is a means to that end!

Skippy 01-11-2010 03:08 PM

When I think of anarchy, I picture Somalia in the 90's. No central government, no law and order, and a bunch of clan leaders at war with each other to try to become the next government. Not pretty, to say the least.

The government is certainly right to be in the business of providing military and police services, and a system of courts serving as an arbiter of last resort to enforce contracts and settle disputes. This to me seems pretty far away from anarchy.

kerry 01-11-2010 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob (Post 2379510)
Their goal is not the elimination of government is it? It appears that even from your government employee viewpoint analysis; their goal is to privatize the services presently provided by government and the elimination of government by starving it of funding is a means to that end!

It is a devious subterfuge because the majority of Colorado voters would not vote to abolish public k12 or higher education, or medicare etc. It's a way of avoiding direct discussion of the merits of various goverment agencies and abolish them by fiscal strangulation. That's why I think it is a similar strategy to that of the nihilist/anarchist.

Classical anarchist political philosophy has nothing to do with violent clashes in Somalia.

Billybob 01-11-2010 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2379533)
It is a devious subterfuge because the majority of Colorado voters would not vote to abolish public k12 or higher education, or medicare etc. It's a way of avoiding direct discussion of the merits of various goverment agencies and abolish them by fiscal strangulation. That's why I think it is a similar strategy to that of the nihilist/anarchist.

Classical anarchist political philosophy has nothing to do with violent clashes in Somalia.

Again, their goal is not the elimination of government, that is the tactic that they are employing. You have stated their goal is to privatize!

Just as an aside, is public k12 education a state function in Colorado or is a local function as in most of the US since its inception? Are not K12 schools predominately funded through local property taxes at the local municipal level and controlled by locally elected school boards?

Craig 01-11-2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob (Post 2379557)
Again, their goal is not the elimination of government, that is the tactic that they are employing. You have stated their goal is to privatize!

Just as an aside, is public k12 education a state function in Colorado or is a local function as in most of the US since its inception? Are not K12 schools predominately funded through local property taxes at the local municipal level and controlled by locally elected school boards?

Colorado public schools are a county function, funded by property taxes with some contribution from the state government.

JollyRoger 01-11-2010 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy (Post 2379511)
When I think of anarchy, I picture Somalia in the 90's. No central government, no law and order, and a bunch of clan leaders at war with each other to try to become the next government. Not pretty, to say the least.

The government is certainly right to be in the business of providing military and police services, and a system of courts serving as an arbiter of last resort to enforce contracts and settle disputes. This to me seems pretty far away from anarchy.

I would describe a United States with no public schools, no oversight of corporations, no Social Security and no social safety net as an anarchist country.

MS Fowler 01-11-2010 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2379598)
I would describe a United States with no public schools, no oversight of corporations, no Social Security and no social safety net as an anarchist country.

So the USA of Washington, Lincoln and even Wilson was anarchist? Schools were not in the purview of the FEDERAL government for most of our history.

I think you are taking an extreme position for the sake of the argument; nit because you actually believe that.

JollyRoger 01-11-2010 05:42 PM

To Lincoln they certainly would be.


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