We lost another hero... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Hatterasguy · #1 01-10-2010, 10:14 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3XFHSRTxp4

Our country is made poorer by the loss of this great man.

Skippy · #2 01-10-2010, 10:57 PM

Medal of Honor Citation:

Quote:

Rank and organization: First Lieutenant, U.S. Army, 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne), 1st Special Forces. Place and date: Republic of Vietnam, 30 December 1968. Entered service at: Montgomery, Ala. Born: 11 July 1939, Opelika, Ala. Citation: For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty. 1st Lt. Howard (then Sergeant. 1st Class .), distinguished himself while serving as platoon sergeant of an American-Vietnamese platoon which was on a mission to rescue a missing American soldier in enemy controlled territory in the Republic of Vietnam. The platoon had left its helicopter landing zone and was moving out on its mission when it was attacked by an estimated 2-company force. During the initial engagement, 1st Lt. Howard was wounded and his weapon destroyed by a grenade explosion. 1st Lt. Howard saw his platoon leader had been wounded seriously and was exposed to fire. Although unable to walk, and weaponless, 1st Lt. Howard unhesitatingly crawled through a hail of fire to retrieve his wounded leader. As 1st Lt. Howard was administering first aid and removing the officer's equipment, an enemy bullet struck 1 of the ammunition pouches on the lieutenant's belt, detonating several magazines of ammunition. 1st Lt. Howard momentarily sought cover and then realizing that he must rejoin the platoon, which had been disorganized by the enemy attack, he again began dragging the seriously wounded officer toward the platoon area. Through his outstanding example of indomitable courage and bravery, 1st Lt. Howard was able to rally the platoon into an organized defense force. With complete disregard for his safety, 1st Lt. Howard crawled from position to position, administering first aid to the wounded, giving encouragement to the defenders and directing their fire on the encircling enemy. For 3 1/2 hours 1st Lt. Howard's small force and supporting aircraft successfully repulsed enemy attacks and finally were in sufficient control to permit the landing of rescue helicopters. 1st Lt. Howard personally supervised the loading of his men and did not leave the bullet-swept landing zone until all were aboard safely. 1st Lt. Howard's gallantry in action, his complete devotion to the welfare of his men at the risk of his life were in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service and reflect great credit on himself, his unit, and the U.S. Army.

Source: http://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/citations25.html#H

RichC · #3 01-11-2010, 02:53 AM

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

Ara T. · #4 01-11-2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

He didn't get the medal for killing people, he also was treating the wounded under heavy fire, you nincompoop.

dannym · #5 01-11-2010, 08:59 AM

As a pacifist I sometimes feel the same way.

On the otherhand sometimes war is inevitable, sometimes even necessary. Some wars are popular some aren't. If your in an unpopulaer was nobody likes you.
If your in a popular war your protecting our freedom and everyone loves you.

Just the way it goes.

Txjake · #6 01-11-2010, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

Then please try not to comment on things you don't understand...this man was a great warrior ( a good thing) and a great man...give him his due. Your comments are somewhat naive. There will always be conflict and we should honor those who do notable actions during those times....

dynalow · #7 01-11-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

FTC*

Say, is this the way to Amarillo mate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPaRQ1BYjzU&feature=related;)

* Feed the Crocs.

#8 01-11-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

I'm assuming that your not just trying to stir up the natives, so I'll try to address your point. Whenever I read one of these stories (any nation, any war) I have two conflicting thoughts:

1. Almost all nations have a military and periodically engage in conflicts (some necessary, some not). Hopefully, the leadership of nations considers this a necessary evil, and only engages when absolutely necessary to protect the nation from actual enemies. Separating the politics from the individuals, those individuals serving in the military have committed to following the orders of their political leadership. We all know people who have engaged in actual combat and done things they would never do otherwise; the vast majority of these individuals will do what is necessary to meet their commitment, to protect themselves and their comrades, and to accomplish their mission. I know very few people who enjoyed that experience, and most people who actually see combat do not talk about it very much. Most of these folks meet their commitment and return to their normal lives, some with long standing consequences. These folks deserve respect and gratitude for choosing to serve their nation. I also hope that nations will eventually "outgrow" this behavior, but it is the current reality.

2. Sometimes you read of someone who is repeatedly in very challenging situations, and has volunteered to return to combat on numerous occasions. While there is no doubt as to their physical courage, I also wonder about the makeup of this personality type. I do understand why the political and military leadership of nations hold these people up as examples to their (sometimes reluctant) less experienced soldiers. However, I can't help wondering if some of these folks have other issues that cause this type of behavior; this seems completely different than the type of service discussed above. If you ask an "average" combat soldier about these types of individuals, you might find them "less enthusiastic" than the military leadership, especially if these individuals are leading others. There is often a fine line between heroic and reckless, and I do have to wonder about the makeup of an individual who was wounded over a dozen times in a conflict where most soldiers are never injured. Maybe this individual was fully committed to completing whatever mission his government asked of him without question (which raises other questions in this particular conflict); or maybe this individual would have been involved in these types of behaviors even if he wasn't involved in the military. In any event, I'm not sure this is someone I would want in charge of my son or daughter if they were in a dangerous situation. I don't want to be unfair to this individual, but it does make me wonder.

strelnik · #9 01-11-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

Not everyone listens to reason or wants to.
Would you share that opinion that way with

a. the guy who sticks a gun in your face when you're taking your 9 year old child to the movies and takes eveything you have
b. the guy who rapes one of your relatives at gunpoint, like your daughter or your sister?

Not all human beings are evil. But many are. Or they have never thought for themselves and are willing to kill others because they have been persuaded by people with just a little more brain power than they have. They are drones.

I will always defend myself, my family, my country and my way of life.

Judged by 12 is always better than carried by 6.

MS Fowler · #10 01-11-2010, 10:15 AM

Sometimes there are very bad people who want to kill or enslave everybody else who is not like them.
Some wars are good; some are inevitable.

Of course you can "Imagine" that there is no war. Its really quite simple--just allow every petty tyrant to do whatever they want--presto--no war.

Txjake · #11 01-11-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Sometimes there are very bad people who want to kill or enslave everybody else who is not like them.
Some wars are good; some are inevitable.

Of course you can "Imagine" that there is no war. Its really quite simple--just allow every petty tyrant to do whatever they want--presto--no war.

no war, then just genocide.....

#12 01-11-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Sometimes there are very bad people who want to kill or enslave everybody else who is not like them.
Some wars are good; some are inevitable.

Of course you can "Imagine" that there is no war. Its really quite simple--just allow every petty tyrant to do whatever they want--presto--no war.

I don't think I would call any war "good," but some are certainly inevitable.

Who said, "All war represents a failure of diplomacy"?

dynalow · #13 01-11-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I don't think I would call any war "good," but some are certainly inevitable.

Who said, "All war represents a failure of diplomacy"?

Agree.

Not necessarily, imo.

MS Fowler · #14 01-11-2010, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I don't think I would call any war "good," but some are certainly inevitable.

Who said, "All war represents a failure of diplomacy"?

What diplomacy would have prevented WW2 in Europe? There are many who argue that the "diplomacy" of allowing Hitler to take over land unopposed actually emboldened him. Had a little force been used early, it might have prevented the major force that was required later to stop Herr Hitler.

I am no fan of war. It truly is "hell". But tyranny is worse.

#15 01-11-2010, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

What diplomacy would have prevented WW2 in Europe? There are many who argue that the "diplomacy" of allowing Hitler to take over land unopposed actually emboldened him. Had a little force been used early, it might have prevented the major force that was required later to stop Herr Hitler.

I am no fan of war. It truly is "hell". But tyranny is worse.

I'm not suggesting that diplomacy would have prevented WW2 in the 30s, but many people believe that WW2 was the inevitable result of the "diplomacy" that occurred at the end of WW1.

I was simply disagreeing with the term "good."