We lost another hero... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#16 01-11-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

Quite the opposite; a man like this would be your child's best chance of getting home alive, if they were combat arms soldiers. Men like this are the experts of the game and value force protection (keeping your soldiers alive). Regretably, people die in combat. The best chance is to know what you are doing (your job) and to be assigned to leaders that are the same way.

I have not been in combat, and my kids certainly never will be, so this is all second hand. My dad was in the infantry in korea, and saw some significant combat. He rarely spoke of it, but he never seemed to be very impressed with "hero" types, especially when they were leading him. It seems to me that there is a difference between "knowing what you are doing" and collecting a pile of purple hearts. Just sayin'.

Txjake · #17 01-11-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I have not been in combat, and my kids certainly never will be, so this is all second hand. My dad was in the infantry in korea, and saw some significant combat. He rarely spoke of it, but he never seemed to be very impressed with "hero" types, especially when they were leading him. It seems to me that there is a difference between "knowing what you are doing" and collecting a pile of purple hearts. Just sayin'.

Well, this man was not the "hero type" as you so aptly describe him. He was a highly skilled soldier doing his job and above and beyond. If you read the citation for his medal of Honor, it was for saving a wounded soldier.

Regarding your children, I sincerely hope that they are never required to be in combat, but one should never say never.

#18 01-11-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

Well, this man was not the "hero type" as you so aptly describe him. He was a highly skilled soldier doing his job and above and beyond. If you read the citation for his medal of Honor, it was for saving a wounded soldier.

Regarding your children, I sincerely hope that they are never required to be in combat, but one should never say never.

I hope you are correct about him, I read the citation.

Regarding my children, they will not be in the military; that's not a question.

strelnik · #19 01-11-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichC

I just dont understand why human beings, honor other human beings, for killing large numbers of some other human beings.

Its sick, preverse, and distructive to the species.

What goes on in peoples minds that make them think it is ok to kill someone they label as an enemy ???

Sometimes I wish we could round up all of the people that think like this and put them on an island so they could all kill each other.

Then the rest of us could have some peace.

Not everyone listens to reason or wants to.
Would you share that opinion that way with

a. the guy who sticks a gun in your face when you're taking your 9 year old child to the movies and takes eveything you have
b. the guy who rapes one of your relatives at gunpoint, like your daughter or your sister?

Not all human beings are evil. But many are. Or they have never thought for themselves and are willing to kill others because they have been persuaded by people with just a little more brain power than they have. They are drones.

I will always defend myself, my family, my country and my way of life.

Judged by 12 is always better than carried by 6.

Skippy · #20 01-11-2010, 03:18 PM

Pacifism would work great if everyone was a pacifist. However, that's never going to happen, so we need soldiers, and if we're going to have soldiers, it's best to have good ones.

thief · #21 01-11-2010, 05:06 PM

To the OP, Thank you for the post.

dynalow · #22 01-11-2010, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thief

To the OP, Thank you for the post.

Yes, Hattie. Thanks.
I could not open your link this morning for some reason, but finally view it and another clip from last year, when he was still living
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMLKEZhkeMI&feature=related

90 minute interview with the Col. from 2006.
http://www.pritzkermilitarylibrary.org/events/2006/07-27-robert-howard.jsp

LaRondo · #23 01-13-2010, 03:57 AM

Book overview

In this provocative new book, Andrew Bacevich warns of a dangerous dual obsession that has taken hold of Americans, conservatives and liberals alike. It is a marriage of militarism and utopian ideology--of unprecedented military might wed to a blind faith in the universality of American values.
This perilous union, Bacevich argues, commits Americans to a futile enterprise, turning the US into a crusader state with a self-proclaimed mission of driving history to its final destination: the world-wide embrace of the American way of life. This mindset invites endless war and the ever-deepening militarization of US policy.
It promises not to perfect but to pervert American ideals and to accelerate the hollowing out of American democracy. As it alienates others, it will leave the United States increasingly isolated.
It will end in bankruptcy, moral as well as economic, and in abject failure.
The New American Militarism examines the origins and implications of this misguided enterprise. The author shows how American militarism emerged as a reaction to the Vietnam War.
Various groups in American society--soldiers, politicians on the make, intellectuals, strategists, Christian evangelicals, even purveyors of pop culture--came to see the revival of military power and the celebration of military values as the antidote to all the ills besetting the country as a consequence of Vietnam and the 1960s.
The upshot, acutely evident in the aftermath of 9/11, has been a revival of vast ambitions and certainty, this time married to a pronounced affinity for the sword. Bacevich urges us to restore a sense of realism and a sense of proportion to US policy.
He proposes, in short, to bring American purposes and American methods--especially with regard to the role of the military--back into harmony with the nation's founding ideals.

Carleton Hughes · #24 01-13-2010, 08:07 AM

Nature, wiser than man, has a way of levelling societies that have become too intoxicated on hubris.

I've never seen it in my own span but it would be fun to watch.

Txjake · #25 01-13-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

Book overview

In this provocative new book, Andrew Bacevich warns of a dangerous dual obsession that has taken hold of Americans, conservatives and liberals alike. It is a marriage of militarism and utopian ideology--of unprecedented military might wed to a blind faith in the universality of American values.
This perilous union, Bacevich argues, commits Americans to a futile enterprise, turning the US into a crusader state with a self-proclaimed mission of driving history to its final destination: the world-wide embrace of the American way of life. This mindset invites endless war and the ever-deepening militarization of US policy.
It promises not to perfect but to pervert American ideals and to accelerate the hollowing out of American democracy. As it alienates others, it will leave the United States increasingly isolated.
It will end in bankruptcy, moral as well as economic, and in abject failure.
The New American Militarism examines the origins and implications of this misguided enterprise. The author shows how American militarism emerged as a reaction to the Vietnam War.
Various groups in American society--soldiers, politicians on the make, intellectuals, strategists, Christian evangelicals, even purveyors of pop culture--came to see the revival of military power and the celebration of military values as the antidote to all the ills besetting the country as a consequence of Vietnam and the 1960s.
The upshot, acutely evident in the aftermath of 9/11, has been a revival of vast ambitions and certainty, this time married to a pronounced affinity for the sword. Bacevich urges us to restore a sense of realism and a sense of proportion to US policy.
He proposes, in short, to bring American purposes and American methods--especially with regard to the role of the military--back into harmony with the nation's founding ideals.

#26 01-13-2010, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleton Hughes

Nature, wiser than man, has a way of levelling societies that have become too intoxicated on hubris.

I've never seen it in my own span but it would be fun to watch.

I agree, but I doubt that it will be fun for most of us.

#27 01-13-2010, 09:24 AM

I haven't read this book but the issue seems a little simpler, and more selfish, to me. America is simply trying to use their military to make the world same for americans at the expense of the rest of the planet. Aside from the fact that the military isn't capable of accomplishing that mission (and is likely to make things worse), they are simply the wrong tool for the job.

It's not the military's fault, they are just a big, dumb club; intended to be swung at full force at an organized enemy. The civilian leadership of both parties continues to use them to treat symptoms whenever they are unable or unwilling to address the actual issues. It's not that they are using a sledge hammer to kill a gnat; it's worse, it's that they're trying to use a sledge hammer to tighten up a loose bolt.

As the only "superpower" left, america has become the big dumb kid from junior high school... with his dad's gun. They still have time to grow up, hopefully.

MS Fowler · #28 01-13-2010, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I haven't read this book but the issue seems a little simpler, and more selfish, to me. America is simply trying to use their military to make the world same for americans at the expense of the rest of the planet. Aside from the fact that the military isn't capable of accomplishing that mission (and is likely to make things worse), they are simply the wrong tool for the job.

It's not the military's fault, they are just a big, dumb club; intended to be swung at full force at an organized enemy. The civilian leadership of both parties continues to use them to treat symptoms whenever they are unable or unwilling to address the actual issues. It's not that they are using a sledge hammer to kill a gnat; it's worse, it's that they're trying to use a sledge hammer to tighten up a loose bolt.

As the only "superpower" left, america has become the big dumb kid from junior high school... with his dad's gun. They still have time to grow up, hopefully.

Makes me wish that isolationism would actually work in today's ( and tomorrow's) world.

#29 01-13-2010, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Makes me wish that isolationism would actually work in today's ( and tomorrow's) world.

There's something to be said for that, but I agree that it really will not work today... maybe it will still work if you're sweden; but it won't work for the U.S.

dynalow · #30 01-13-2010, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo;2380913
[B

Book overview[/B]

In this provocative new book, Andrew Bacevich warns of a dangerous dual obsession that has taken hold of Americans, conservatives and liberals alike. It is a marriage of militarism and utopian ideology--of unprecedented military might wed to a blind faith in the universality of American values.
This perilous union, Bacevich argues, commits Americans to a futile enterprise, turning the US into a crusader state with a self-proclaimed mission of driving history to its final destination: the world-wide embrace of the American way of life. This mindset invites endless war and the ever-deepening militarization of US policy.
It promises not to perfect but to pervert American ideals and to accelerate the hollowing out of American democracy. As it alienates others, it will leave the United States increasingly isolated.
It will end in bankruptcy, moral as well as economic, and in abject failure.
The New American Militarism examines the origins and implications of this misguided enterprise. The author shows how American militarism emerged as a reaction to the Vietnam War.
Various groups in American society--soldiers, politicians on the make, intellectuals, strategists, Christian evangelicals, even purveyors of pop culture--came to see the revival of military power and the celebration of military values as the antidote to all the ills besetting the country as a consequence of Vietnam and the 1960s.
The upshot, acutely evident in the aftermath of 9/11, has been a revival of vast ambitions and certainty, this time married to a pronounced affinity for the sword. Bacevich urges us to restore a sense of realism and a sense of proportion to US policy.
He proposes, in short, to bring American purposes and American methods--especially with regard to the role of the military--back into harmony with the nation's founding ideals.

Your post is off topic, but thanks for posting it. Curiosity got me to google the author. Some of his thinking I agree with. Some I don't. Mostly a question of magnitude and approach to the "WOT" strategy.
This is a good interview. He makes some good points. There are always differences in how to fight a war and confront an enemy. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/interviews/bacevich.html

Now back to the thread.