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  #46  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Campaign finance reform is the main reason I could not support him. I do not take kindly to attacks on the Constitution---freedom of POLITICAL speech is what it is all about. When you put curbs on that you are stepping closer to tyranny.
Given the state of the union during the last 6 months of the election, campaign finance reform wasn't an issue for me.

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  #47  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Campaign finance reform is the main reason I could not support him. I do not take kindly to attacks on the Constitution---freedom of POLITICAL speech is what it is all about. When you put curbs on that you are stepping closer to tyranny.
Which is why you are doomed to be ruled by the rich, the corporate masters, and their Congressional stooges. If you call that "freedom", then war is peace, and ignorance is strength.
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  #48  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:37 AM
Craig
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Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
So you're having a hard time affording shoes for your kids? I doubt it. You ever been to WV ?
I've been there, much of it can be described as "rural poverty." We are talking about a coal industry that has been slowly dying for decades with nothing to replace it. It's what people mean when they use the term "working poor." Transferring just enough money to the state to keep it on life support is not the solution.
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  #49  
Old 06-29-2010, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
Which is why you are doomed to be ruled by the rich, the corporate masters, and their Congressional stooges. If you call that "freedom", then ignorance is strength.
Free Enterprise capitalism is NOT the same as Big Business Corporatism.

Free Enterprise capitalism is all about risk and reward.
Big Business Corporatism is all about avoiding risk--getting into bed with the government to reduce risk, and competition.

Be careful whom you call ignorant.
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  #50  
Old 06-29-2010, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Free Enterprise capitalism is NOT the same as Big Business Corporatism.

Free Enterprise capitalism is all about risk and reward.
Big Business Corporatism is all about avoiding risk--getting into bed with the government to reduce risk, and competition.

Be careful whom you call ignorant.

I love this! I was trying to explain this to a friend. I don't like BO taking over GM, and bailing out the banks because its removing the risk that is what is at the heart of capitalism.

I want businesses to have the freedom to grow and expand, but with that freedom comes the risk of toppling under your own weight.

I think government involvement, be it bail outs or campaign finance reform, is destroying the natural balance that exists in capitalism.
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  #51  
Old 06-29-2010, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Free Enterprise capitalism is NOT the same as Big Business Corporatism.

Free Enterprise capitalism is all about risk and reward.
Big Business Corporatism is all about avoiding risk--getting into bed with the government to reduce risk, and competition.

Be careful whom you call ignorant.
The phrase is from 1984:

Freedom is Slavery
War is Peace
Ignorance is Strength
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  #52  
Old 06-29-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
I just now tried in vain to get a state by state breakdown of federal pork received vs. fed tax paid out. I was able to find that Alaska is first in the category and AZ last. I've seen a list before but it's eluding me right now. I know Cal is way down on it.

I've got mixed feelings about Byrd. He managed to escape his roots somewhat when he renounced the KKK and he showed some balls now and then but the guy took himself a little too seriously. Like a lot of them.
State Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Rank
New Mexico $2.03 1
Mississippi $2.02 2
Alaska $1.84 3
Louisiana $1.78 4
West Virginia $1.76 5
North Dakota $1.68 6
Alabama $1.66 7
South Dakota $1.53 8
Kentucky $1.51 9
Virginia $1.51 10
Montana $1.47 11
Hawaii $1.44 12
Maine $1.41 13
Arkansas $1.41 14
Oklahoma $1.36 15
South Carolina $1.35 16
Missouri $1.32 17
Maryland $1.30 18
Tennessee $1.27 19
Idaho $1.21 20
Arizona $1.19 21
Kansas $1.12 22
Wyoming $1.11 23
Iowa $1.10 24
Nebraska $1.10 25
Vermont $1.08 26
North Carolina $1.08 27
Pennsylvania $1.07 28
Utah $1.07 29
Indiana $1.05 30
Ohio $1.05 31
Georgia $1.01 32
Rhode Island $1.00 33
Florida $0.97 34
Texas $0.94 35
Oregon $0.93 36
Michigan $0.92 37
Washington $0.88 38
Wisconsin $0.86 39
Massachusetts $0.82 40
Colorado $0.81 41
New York $0.79 42
California $0.78 43
Delaware $0.77 44
Illinois $0.75 45
Minnesota $0.72 46
New Hampshire $0.71 47
Connecticut $0.69 48
Nevada $0.65 49
New Jersey $0.61 50
District of Columbia $5.55 na
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  #53  
Old 06-29-2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SirNik84 View Post
I love this! I was trying to explain this to a friend. I don't like BO taking over GM, and bailing out the banks because its removing the risk that is what is at the heart of capitalism.

I want businesses to have the freedom to grow and expand, but with that freedom comes the risk of toppling under your own weight.

I think government involvement, be it bail outs or campaign finance reform, is destroying the natural balance that exists in capitalism.
Big business LOVES regulation--it limits their competition. An example. Think about Coke and Pepsi--a new law requires them to provide some benefit for a small class of employees. Its a relatively small cost, maybe .01 cents on their product, and since both have to pay it, there is no competitive disadvantage. As usual, the customer bears the cost.
But what about ABC Cola, Inc, which was trying to become a regional competitor to Pepsi? The compliance cost to them is excessive, effectively knocking them out of the market.
Coke and Pepsi benefit; ABC suffers.

Same in the oil field.
Do you think the big American Steel corps of the last century opposed regulation? Not at all--they were facing growing domestic competition and profits were falling---until government regulation stepped in and knocked out the competition.
Same story in the medical field.
Go all the way back to the origin--the meat packing industry. The BIG MEAT packers used regulation and inspection to again kill their competition.
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  #54  
Old 06-29-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 865sp300e View Post
State Federal Spending per Dollar of Federal Taxes Rank
New Mexico $2.03 1
Mississippi $2.02 2
Alaska $1.84 3
Louisiana $1.78 4
West Virginia $1.76 5
North Dakota $1.68 6
Alabama $1.66 7
South Dakota $1.53 8
Kentucky $1.51 9
Virginia $1.51 10
Montana $1.47 11
Hawaii $1.44 12
Maine $1.41 13
Arkansas $1.41 14
Oklahoma $1.36 15
South Carolina $1.35 16
Missouri $1.32 17
Maryland $1.30 18
Tennessee $1.27 19
Idaho $1.21 20
Arizona $1.19 21
Kansas $1.12 22
Wyoming $1.11 23
Iowa $1.10 24
Nebraska $1.10 25
Vermont $1.08 26
North Carolina $1.08 27
Pennsylvania $1.07 28
Utah $1.07 29
Indiana $1.05 30
Ohio $1.05 31
Georgia $1.01 32
Rhode Island $1.00 33
Florida $0.97 34
Texas $0.94 35
Oregon $0.93 36
Michigan $0.92 37
Washington $0.88 38
Wisconsin $0.86 39
Massachusetts $0.82 40
Colorado $0.81 41
New York $0.79 42
California $0.78 43
Delaware $0.77 44
Illinois $0.75 45
Minnesota $0.72 46
New Hampshire $0.71 47
Connecticut $0.69 48
Nevada $0.65 49
New Jersey $0.61 50
District of Columbia $5.55 na
Please note that the lowest 17 states are subsidising all the rest of us.
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  #55  
Old 06-29-2010, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 450slcguy View Post
Many times it only takes one bad decision to wipe out a lifetime of achievement. McCaine caved to the religious right when he picked Palin. Had he not done so, the election might have turned out differently. Was it a bad decison? In retrospect, given the oppurtunity he'd probably do it differently.

He did sponser the campaign finance reform. Good for him. I liked McCain during the campaign. Too bad his VP choice was such a sour *****. It likely cost him the election.
I think they knew they we're heading for a loss so they went for the hail Mary with Palin.
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  #56  
Old 06-30-2010, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
I think they knew they we're heading for a loss so they went for the hail Mary with Palin.
Probably true.
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #57  
Old 06-30-2010, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by 450slcguy View Post
Agree on the first part.

I don't think the Palin choice was heroic at all. Quite the opposite.
Courageous? ...desperate? ....foolhardy? ...gutsy?

But really the opposite of heroic? Surely you don't think it was cowardly?
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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #58  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
I think they knew they we're heading for a loss so they went for the hail Mary with Palin.
If they did, it was a miscalulation. I knew all kinds of moderate Democrats, especially Clinton supporters, that were going to vote for McCain simply because Obama just didn't have the kind of executive experience he needed for the job. When McCain chose a right wing religious-right lunatic from the Glenn Beck faction of the GOP, he kissed that entire voting block goodbye. McCain's strength always lay in the fact his appeal among moderate Democrats was incredible, at least up until the Palin fiasco. It's over now.
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  #59  
Old 06-30-2010, 12:38 PM
Craig
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Courageous? ...desperate? ....foolhardy? ...gutsy?

But really the opposite of heroic? Surely you don't think it was cowardly?
IMO, the "cowardly" aspect was a last minute attempt to pander to social conservatives when it was clear he was behind.
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  #60  
Old 06-30-2010, 05:32 PM
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Cowardlyly courageous?

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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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