90+%

I gotta ask my brother, who is a lawyer for the State of Wi what the F*** they are thinking?

Even though HD has just gotten more pay cuts and concessions from the workers in York, they are threatening to pull out of there again too.
i am really thinking we are going to see Chinese made HD's soon

__________________
"I have no convictions ... I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy"

Current
Monika '74 450 SL
BrownHilda '79 280SL
FoxyCleopatra '99 Chevy Suburban
Scarlett 2014 Jeep Cherokee
Krystal 2004 Volvo S60
Gone
'74 Jeep CJ5
'97 Jeep ZJ Laredo
Rudolf ‘86 300SDL
Bruno '81 300SD
Fritzi '84 BMW
'92 Subaru
'96 Impala SS
'71 Buick GS conv
'67 GTO conv
'63 Corvair conv
'57 Nomad

That's some interesting insight, MG! Might very well be the proverbial "rest of the story" that hasn't gotten widespread coverage.

__________________

1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

"During 2009, the Company shipped 223,023 Harley-Davidson motorcycles, a decrease of 80,456 motorcycles, or 26.5%, from last year. The Company’s shipments in the U.S. in 2009 continued to be negatively impacted by the challenging economic environment. On January 22, 2010, the Company announced that it expects full year 2010 shipments of Harley-Davidson motorcycle units to be between 201,000 to 212,000. (1) This represents a 5% to 10% reduction from 2009 shipments as a result of two key factors. First, the Company expects global economies to remain challenging, specifically in the U.S. with continued high unemployment and low consumer confidence. Second, the Company expects continued price competition from other manufacturers as they reduce excess inventories, in particular, old model year motorcycles. Additionally, the Company anticipates price competition at a local level as retailers discount excess inventory driven by contraction of the competitive dealer network. "

"Restructuring Expense and Other Impairments

2009 Restructuring Plan

During 2009, in response to the U.S. economic recession and worldwide slowdown in consumer demand, the Company committed to a volume reduction and a combination of restructuring actions (2009 Restructuring Plan) in the Motorcycles and Financial Services segments which are expected to be completed by 2012. The 2009 Restructuring Plan was designed to reduce excess capacity, exit certain business operations and lower the Company’s cost structure. The Company’s planned actions include:

• consolidating its two engine and transmission plants in the Milwaukee area into its facility in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin;

• closing its distribution facility in Franklin, Wisconsin and consolidating Parts and Accessories and General Merchandise distribution through a third party;

• discontinuing the domestic transportation fleet;

• consolidating its vehicle test facilities from three locations in Alabama, Arizona and Florida into one location in Arizona;

• restructuring its York, Pennsylvania motorcycle production facility to focus on the core operations of motorcycle assembly, metal fabrication and paint; and

• exiting the Buell product line.


The 2009 Restructuring Plan includes a reduction of approximately 2,700 to 2,900 hourly production positions and approximately 720 non-production, primarily salaried positions within the Motorcycles segment and approximately 100 salaried positions in the Financial Services segment. These reductions began in 2009 and are expected to be completed during 2011.

Restructuring charges consist of employee severance and termination costs, accelerated depreciation on the long lived assets that will be exited as part of the 2009 Restructuring Plan and other related costs. As of December 31, 2009, approximately 2,000 employees have left the Company under the 2009 Restructuring Plan. "

http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/downloads/Annual_Reports/2009/10k_2009.pdf

SRJ,

Don't ask for an explanation, but HDFS (the financial services subsidiary for dealer floor plan financing, customer vehicle financing and rider insurance agency sales) did a lot of paper shuffling with its finance receivables in 2009. They pushed them around and created some special purpose entities for who knows what reason...all in the name of accounting standards compliance.
That might be where BH saw an opportunity for lending. Collateral on their loans would be mostly dealer and customer loans owed to Harley. Those I suspect have high interest rates by today's standards.

HD riders are a different breed of rider. they are so loyal to HD they practice a religion, the religion of Harley-Davidson. HD needs to take advantage of that loyalty by continuing to offer up the product that brought them to the dance in the first place; an American MADE AND PRODUCED product.

however, on the business side the government only knows how to do one thing to business:

tax it into exile.

by the time the taxes are taken care of there is very little to run the business on, thus margins are SLIM to NONE. Small to medium businesses need and deserve an incentive to continue operations, else they will dry up and die.

hello China, Mexico, Japan, Korea we love sending our $$$$ overseas, don't we?

Killing the geese that lay the golden eggs, one goose at a time........

pretty soon, our great American manufacturing concerns may become empty buildings only inhabited by the ghosts of the workers who once built a great nation.......

Sing it Hank....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2vem1j3Z4g

Ooh, that smell
Can't you smell that smell?
Ooh, that smell......


Got his picture too but at the Open Road Tour in 2002 at Pimlico track in Baltimore. Willie, Nancy and son Bill all signed my copy of the 100 year photo album HD put out back then. IIRC, I paid about 60.00 for it.
What are they now on ebay? 5 bucks? Willie G also signed the bill of a black 100th anniversary ball cap. Like John Kerry, I still have that hat! (never worn it)

If you worked for a state, any state, you would be foolish to get off that gravy train. Govt workers. police, fire, teachers, etc are the modern day priveledged class. You know that. Defined benefit retirement plans, Colas, post retirement health benefits. All the goodies the vast majority of Americans in the private world don't have.

Let's try an analogy to Benz; there are a significant group of people (myself included) who like the style, simplicity, sound, etc. of the old diesel Benz and have no interest in their newer cars. Many of us go to significant trouble and expense to keep our cars in good condition. We are similar to many HD riders who won't ride anything else. Different culture, same dedication.

My kids think my old cars are sorta cool, but they would much rather have a new car with more performance and more comforts (I'm currently looking around for a c-class for one of them). They are just not that interested in the attributes that make my cars important to me, including the fact that I grew up seeing them when they we unobtainable to me.

What if Benz had taken the same approach as HD. What if they had locked into the w123, w126, and r107 designs and decided they were going to continue making the same basic cars forever because they had a group of dedicated customers? They would now be selling updated versions of those cars with safety and emissions improvements that look essentially the same and had basically the same performance and features.

A small group of us would be thrilled, I would gladly pay $60k for a factory fresh w123 diesel. However, I recognize the most people would not be interested in that product line and their customer base would be decreasing every year. Obviously, that would not be a good business plan.

Another comparison, I love my old air cooled BMW R80 (carburetors and all); how would BMW motorcycle be doing if they were still selling that bike today? They have continuously updated their line over the last 30 years, and they are doing very well at the moment (selling bikes in the same price range as HD).

Rant over.

it is a well known fact that in most instances, if a company is not creating new and more inventive products, it is not growing. However, HD may present a slightly different scenario in that the riders are loyal to the rarely changing Harley product offerings. In other words, these aren't people who necessarily want change.

there was a period when Mercedes rarely changed body styles, then around 1995 that began to change. Personally, I do NOT like or enjoy the new benz body styles and have met quite a few people who like the looks of the pre-1992 mercedes. for some of us, older is better.

So, HD's business plan is to only make a product that appeals to a specific group of customers who have an average age of 50 or 60? I don't think I'll be buying their stock.

Take a look at BMW, another bike company with products in the same price range. Personally, I wish they sold nothing but air cooled twins (I'm keeping mine). If BMW still sold the bikes I like, I would have probably bought several new ones over the years. I have no interest in their current bikes, so I don't buy them. Fortunately for them, they understand that I am not their future; I'm probably not going to be buying bikes from anyone in 20 years, so they don't need to keep me happy. They need to figure out how to sell products to the 20-somethings with enough cash to buy a $15k bike, that is their future. Those potential customers do not want the same product I want, so they are going to move on. That is the correct business decision and that is why their sales are up about 20% and HD is about to disappear.

The same goes for Benz; I have no use for their new stuff, but I'm currently shopping for a (used) c-class for my daughter, who's learning to drive. It is possible that she will be buying their cars 40 years from now; who do you think they should be trying to keep happy?

Their problem is not production costs, it's getting people to buy their bikes. The design is outmoded, and they can't seem to expand beyond their existing customer base by presenting products a broader market wants to buy. If Harley can't deal with that, they are finished. They need to hire some Ford guy to show them how it's done, it's not impossible. I don't think you will ever see them leave the US, if they did, their loyal customer base would collapse. I do wish they would build a factory overseas so we can compete better in the world market with some sort of more Euro-style bike. So far, the V-rod, a Euro-style Harley, has been a disaster. It just plain costs too much, and is too damned big.

Buell was a hell of a bike. Too bad HD couldn't run with it. They were too stupid to see that they actually had something there.

They are closing left and right. A 40k bike is an insane purchase anyway, they have $hitty resale.

The do have a small assembly plant in Brazil. (Mostly for favorable tariff treatment for the local market.)
Here's something interesting about HD parts sourcing.
http://www.bus.wisc.edu/grainger/harley-davidson/

I don't want one, but HD needs some kind of rational business plan. What they sell is really a niche product that became very popular in the 80s when the boomers were in their 30s and 40s. They made a strategic error by not using that market advantage to build a new, younger consumer base with other products. They also made the mistake of increasing their capability to keep up with a temporary demand. Now the boomers are getting older and the kids are not interested in their product. They are basically screwed, and they did it to themselves.

I remember when Porsche did the same thing with the 944 in the 80s, when those cars were popular with the boomers for a few years. For a while, everybody and their brother was driving a 944, than it ended and the market moved on. Porsche had to regroup and figure out what their real market was. Can you imagine what would have happened if the 944 was their only product?

Funny you mentioned Porsche & Harley in the same post.
Harley had Porshe collaborate in designing the V-Rod "Revolution" engine.
Nothing pedestrian or antiquated about the VRod...Just not a big hit. I always thought that maybe they should have introduced a 750cc version as a step in to the HD showroom. The V rod was too fast and quiet for most guys getting into Harleys for the first time. Scary fast and powerful..and no noise telling you the engine was revving like crazy....
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/26/automobiles/a-harley-takes-an-engine-from-porsche.html

Personally, I thought the v-rod was an improvement on the v-twin (which does not interest me at all), but I'm not their target audience. They had the right idea, they just didn't get it implemented successfully. I don't know what they could do now, it might be too late for them to build a new audience for a new line of products. I do think they are about to get much smaller, hopefully they can rebuild the company.