My basis for the conclusion are the statements from the line crew that repaired one leg of my own service. Feel free to dispute them as you wish.

You provided a documented example of a similar circumstance that was linked to a generator. The same result can and does occur without the use of a generator. It's an unfortunate part of the occupation.

So technically the second statement “and it has nothing to do with a home generator” is without factual basis and has been demonstrably dis-proven. The fact that utility workers are electrocuted by sources other than home generators is completely irrelevant.

Because the main thrust of the thread’s conversation is that improper use of home generation equipment operated through unpermitted and violative of the NEC connections can and do energize up circuit conductors that can kill utility workers through “generator feedback”. It does happen, it is addressed by the National Electrical Code, it is repeatedly cautioned against, and there are inexpensive approved and required solutions to prevent such danger.

The issue is not that electrocution is an unfortunate part of the occupation it is whether niggardly individuals are irresponsible when acting in ways that needlessly endanger others, and do so in ignorance.

The statement "and it has nothing to do with a home generator" is absolutely factual in basis. As I mentioned previously, feel free to ignore the facts as you will.

The discussion, that you clearly ignored, was the fact that an electrical worker can and does suffer injury or death when they contact both a live wire and a ground wire..........independent of the use of a home generator.

You choose to ignore the facts that don't support your position and conclusion, as is classic in most of your writings. No real surprise there.

It is not ''technically' correct, it is an absolute. Electrical codes are made exactly for the least likely scenario for a good reason. I've never seen a lineman use a ladder, but I have seen a lot of them climb the pole! A lot of distribution lines are not safely accessable to a bucket truck so they use climbing gear to get to those pegs you see sticking out of the poles. There are actually houses with electricity outside the city!

I cannot state with certainty that this is not done here. However, due to the extreme compromise in safety that results with such a approach, I'd have to conclude that it's very rare...........at least in the NYC area.

It would be of interest to know if the crew would work on live lines in such a scenario. That would be extraordinarily dangerous if it is permitted.

Yes- they do it every day if you are talking about climbing a pole and working around live wires. Next time anyone sees their local utility crew- ask them if it alright with them if you install a backup generator without a properly installed, UL listed transfer switch and see what they say.

I had a “know it all” neighbor who showed me his home wiring handiwork. All the black wires were connected to ground because as he explained to me “black is ground”. Apparently he was consistent with his color code as everything worked fine. But it convinces me that it would be unsafe to let every homeowner come up with his own technique to isolate his generator from his utility's power.
I think you and Billybob have made some reasonable statements. I have a lot of respect for the linemen who not only have a dangerous job but need to do it in rain, in darkness, among tree branches and sometimes speeding drivers.
And I appreciate your postings coming from someone with actual experience.

__________________
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Thanks- I needed that! your neighbor must have been following the wiring colors from his car! The wire does not know what color it is and as long as you have a complete circuit it will work, but he is probably switching his neutrals on the light switches which is a bad thing. If you have any questions about electrical I would be happy to try and help, but do me a favor and PM me so I don't have to endure the personal attacks from the knowitalls!!

The point that you seem to miss is the fact that such workers handle live wires "every day" by your own statement.

Therefore, if a home generator is producing voltage out to the lines, the crew shouldn't be harmed by such a generator if they are following their own procedures for handing live lines.

Again, do not conclude that I support an improperly wired generator in any way, shape, or form.

What I might ask the local crew is the following:

"If you are competent to handle live 7200 voltage every day, why would a home generator that produces 240V be of any more danger to you". I would like to hear the answer to that question.

I didn't think that you of all people would support an improperly installed generator. To answer your question- no the voltage from a generator is no more dangerous than any other, but why bring it into the equation if it is preventable? I don't think that you understand- this is not a matter of me tramping on someones right to do something how they want to- this is an NEC requirement. I guess you think it is OK to kill a lineman if he makes a mistake when working on a dead line. Either that or you're just incapable of admitting that I might actually know more about something than you, and have to get in the last word.

Since your reading comprehension skills are non-existent, we're done here.

I did exactly that. The lineman said no problem because they treat every wire as if it's hot.

Boy.... seems like a brawl in here

Found this interesting link from San Diego -
http://www.sandiego.gov/environmental-services/energy/pdf/generators.pdf

excerpt - (c) Any electrical generator, other than a generator designed to run in parallel with the system of the serving utility and approved by that utility, that is capable of being permanently connected to a customer's electrical system shall be connected only by means of a double throw switch so as to isolate the customer's electrical system from that of the electrical corporation or state or local agency.


Maybe this one....
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/tips/generators.html

excerpt - Connecting a portable electric generator directly to your household wiring can be deadly. A generator that is directly connected to your home's wiring can 'backfeed' into the power lines connected to your home.

Utility transformers can then increase this lower electrical voltage to thousands of volts. That's more than enough to kill a utility lineman making outage repairs many miles away. You could also cause expensive damage to utility equipment and your generator.

If you wish to hard-wire a generator to your home, it should be installed by a licensed electrician with an approved cut-off switch that will automatically disconnect the home from the power grid when the generator is being used. Please check with your local utility company before installing a hard-wired generator.


Seems like plenty of people are plenty concerned about home use generators and how they are connected. As with all things electrical care and caution should be taken at every step, using multiple redundancy. Being lazy, cheap or ignorant is not an excuse to kill someone, or even to make their job more difficult. One situation which I believe some may be missing, is in a case of downed lines. A repair could be in progress on the previously determined to be uncharged lines, when butthead homeowner fires up the generator and fries someone. May be unlikely, but possible.

__________________
On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
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This is the exact scenario I referred to in an earlier post and was subsequently accused of being an ignorant liar who lives in a fantasy world! All personal vendettas aside, If you are going to hookup a generator to your grid powered house DO IT PROPERLY with either an automatic (usually for a permanantly installed standby generator) or manual DPDT transfer switch. A SPDT switch WILL NOT work unless you only have 120 volt service to your house. If you have 3 phase service then you will need a 3 pole transfer switch. Sure it's more expensive to do it properly, but last time I checked saving money does not entitle you to endanger someones life.