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  #16  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
So in reality there is no law specifically denying consideration of Sharia but by default the only law that is supposed to be considered is Federal, State or Municipal statues, correct?...
Judges will from time to time consider foreign sources of law when interpreting a situation that has no clear answer in our statutes, regulations, or case law. I have never heard of a judge referring to Sharia in that way, but I suppose it could happen. The judge's oath of office, however, requires him or her to determine what the applicable state or federal law is and to follow that law. If a judge rules a certain way because Sharia compels it, then we hope that there is an appellate court to reverse that decision.
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And if some judge somewhere decides to abide by some element of Sharia contrary to Federal/State/Municipal in a ruling there is a mechanism by which that ruling eventually would be invalidated, as has already occured, correct?
Like I said, we hope that there are appellate courts willing and able to correct such a thing, but that mechanism is not perfect. The main line of defense against the problem Newt has imagined is the fidelity of the judges to their oaths of office.

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  #17  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:23 PM
Craig
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
The dictionary websites seem to prefer "numskull." I would have spelled it "numbskull" myself.
Are you guys really arguing over spelling?
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  #18  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Are you guys really arguing over spelling?
All day long. Great thing to argue about. Another of my pet peeves is the use of "if" when the sentence really calls for "whether," as in, "I wonder if Sarah Palin will run in 2012." That makes no sense, but you see it all the time. It should be, "I wonder whether Sarah Palin will run in 2012."
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  #19  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:38 PM
Craig
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What about the use of "less" and "fewer," many people get that one wrong?
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  #20  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
All day long. Great thing to argue about. Another of my pet peeves is the use of "if" when the sentence really calls for "whether," as in, "I wonder if Sarah Palin will run in 2012." That makes no sense, but you see it all the time. It should be, "I wonder whether Sarah Palin will run in 2012."
Let me see if I get this wrong. I wonder whether the Republican party , now dealing with the Teabaggers will rename themselves the Donner Party?
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  #21  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
Judges will from time to time consider foreign sources of law when interpreting a situation that has no clear answer in our statutes, regulations, or case law. I have never heard of a judge referring to Sharia in that way, but I suppose it could happen. The judge's oath of office, however, requires him or her to determine what the applicable state or federal law is and to follow that law. If a judge rules a certain way because Sharia compels it, then we hope that there is an appellate court to reverse that decision.Like I said, we hope that there are appellate courts willing and able to correct such a thing, but that mechanism is not perfect. The main line of defense against the problem Newt has imagined is the fidelity of the judges to their oaths of office.
Maybe Newt doesn't have the same high opinion of "the fidelity of the judges to their oaths of office"! Maybe Newt thinks that rather than allowing judges that latitude to rule incorrectly and forcing the public to rely on the willingness and hope of other appellate judges to find fault and reverse, a law that prohibits consideration of Sharia and prevents the fault from occurring is more efficacious and poses not threat to the present order of law.

You surely don't claim that everyone who appears before a "rogue(thanks!)" judge has the means or the wherewithal to mount effective appeals do you?

Wouldn't such a law simply statutorily prevent judges who abide by their fidelity to their oaths to office from straying into versions of law without Constitutional basis?

Is there a reason other than "we don’t need it"? If there was such a law what would be its negative consequence?

I don’t know if you are aware of the NJ judge whose ruling was overturned on appeal is the poster boy for the no Sharia in our courts cause. I can’t find a fairly factual report on the original case or the appellate ruling at the moment, but there are a million opinions about it!

When the public see’s and hears of cases like that and cases where Muslim taxi drivers are discriminating based on their religious principles without consequence, combined with the seemingly obtrusive and even belligerent Muslim expansion in area’s across the country, as has been the case throughout much of western Europe, no one should be surprised that perceptions play out as politics.

Last edited by Billybob; 09-18-2010 at 11:31 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by daveuz View Post
Let me see if I get this wrong. I wonder whether the Republican party , now dealing with the Teabaggers will rename themselves the Donner Party?
I believe you got it right.

And we can only hope.
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  #23  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Are you guys really arguing over spelling?
The matter raised was not the actual spelling one way or the other, but the claim that one spelling was preferred over another. That remains unsubstantiated and unsettled!
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  #24  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
...You surely don't claim that everyone who appears before a "rouge" judge has the means or the wherewithal to mount effective appeals do you?...
A rouge judge? Do we have another spelling disagreement here? To answer your question, no, I would not make that claim and it's even worse than that. Sometimes appeals are unavailable no matter how much money the litigants have.
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Wouldn't such a law simply statutorily prevent judges who abide by their fidelity to their oaths to office from straying into versions of law without Constitutional basis?
For one thing, we will need judges to enforce Newt's new law, so what would he accomplish? For another, I think it's a solution searching for a problem. It's not as if we have judges applying Sharia law all over the place. There was one judge, in New Jersey I think, who seemed to do it, but he got reversed on appeal.
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Is there a reason other than "we don’t need it"? If there was such a law what would be its negative consequence?
Who knows what unintended consequences such an unnecessary law might have once creative lawyers get hold of it.
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I don’t know if you are aware of the NJ judge whose ruling was overturned on appeal is the poster boy for the no Sharia in our courts cause. I can’t find a fairly factual report on the original case or the appellate ruling at the moment, but there are a million opinions about it!
That's the one. I typed the previous part of the comment before I got to this. That judge seemed to have a major brain freeze, although I don't know the details.
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When the public see’s and hears of cases like that and cases where Muslim taxi drivers are discriminating based on their religious principles without consequence, combined with the seemingly obtrusive and even belligerent Muslim expansion in area’s across the country, as has been the case throughout much of western Europe, no one should be surprised that perceptions play out as politics.
That's true, but Newt should know better, IMHO.
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  #25  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig View Post
What about the use of "less" and "fewer," many people get that one wrong?
You see that one a lot. People have trouble with "which" and "that," too. "Which" is usually the incorrect choice, IMHO.
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  #26  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:30 PM
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"A rouge judge? Do we have another spelling disagreement here?"

You'd be surprised at how many judges with very red artificially enhanced cheeks are doing this as we speak!
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2010, 11:38 PM
Craig
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I don't know about these "big government" guys who always want to pass new laws because they don't believe the existing laws will be enforced.
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  #28  
Old 09-19-2010, 12:28 AM
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I can remember when hate crime laws were passed in Texas. There was a lot of press about this and the reason for them, but the Police were firmly in favor of them.

Lawyers had found clever ways to spring those bought up on assault charges and the police wanted another charge to be added that would not be so easy to beat.

The Black population of Dallas was also very much in favor of this due to an incident that took place in or about 1962 at a small lake at Fort Parker State Park. No laws were broken, but three or four Black teenagers died due to being miss-handled by the Police after an arrest. I am sure there is a story about this somewhere on-line. It was the straw that broke the Camel's back in the way Texas law enforcement dealt with minorities.

But back to Newt's comments: They are totally meaningless. Someone needs to send him a copy of the US Constitution and tell him that this is the law of the land despite Dick Cheney's assertion that, "The Constitution is just a piece of paper."
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  #29  
Old 09-19-2010, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
Actually the exact opposite of rambling, I'd hoped that I had asked as simply and succinctly as possible but I gather it wasn't simple enough for you!

I never intended to overburden your capacity to comprehend; your stated concern was that "he (Newt) is an idiot for using this as a wedge issue".

To anyone who can read it seems there are three elements contained with that statement. Who the user is, what the issue is and whether an issue is used as a "wedge"

I was simply trying to determine if your complaint was based only on that circumstance which has those particular three elements mutually inclusive.

I don't recall you complaining about any leftist use of divisive issues or of their use of "wedge" issues, so I tried to ask as simply as possible the exact nature and extent of your complaint.

It was as much a rhetorical question as one that I could expect you might be able to understand and cogently respond to, so don't fret that it might be unanswerable for you.
You were rambling before, and you're doing it again now.

That looks quite like a personal insult up there. Watch yourself, Billybob.
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  #30  
Old 09-19-2010, 02:46 PM
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I don't believe he is an idiot.
Perhaps but he’s certainly inciting idiocy.

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