My choices to buy or lease this time around
 

I guess I'll start this thread here in off topic.. I want to get some thoughts on my choice of car to get next (by the eoy).

Issues / criteria?

• I drive alot, about 20K miles per year, spend about $350 in gas per month!
• Now, I am driving a 2004 Mustang GT, 5 speed, and 100 shot of N20.. Love it.
• Up to this Mustang, which has 92K miles (I bought with 30K miles about 3 yrs ago), I typically drive the cars until 100K miles or so and trade in after I get a little tired of the repairs. Now, for the Mustang I spent $1K for the ac last week, granted it is the ONLY repair I've had to do in 3 years, other than a battery and brakes.
• Wishful thinking? Imagine driving a CPO E350 and not havingi any problems in three years , or no more than $1K. lol

I was entertaining leasing this time and not getting to the 100k miles or to the point where the car becomes a money pit. So I went to look at the 2011 BMW 328.. Leasing with 20K miles per year with the couple of options I wanted was about $650, with first and last month up front. But then when I was thinking about the $650 car payment, I figured I really had more options...

• 2011 BMW 328 leased
• 2007-2008 MB E3500 w/sport package. I've been seeing these for about $29K to $33K with under 40K miles and CPO.. very tempting...
• 2010 Mustang GT - With the new 5.0 coming out for 2011 with 400+ horsepower, the dealerrs are giving away the left over 2010's. I am going to look at a red one , 5 spd (2010) that a dealer has this wknd. MSRP is $29K and dealer quoted me about $24,500... very tempting discount and price for a BRAND NEW CAR.

Keep in mind, I am going to NO LONGER keep a car more than 2-3 years, weather leased or purchased. So I also have to forecast how upside down I could potentially be at time of trade.. hence the benefit of leasing..

The threshold for comfort on the monthly payment would be $700.. that's it, not $726 or $750 lol... $700.

I know being an MB board It's going to be alot of MB choice, that's fine.. give me your thoughts and why...

I am not concerned about "ride" or "speed" etc, as I know all three cars are very different cars... Not expecting a Ford to ride like an MB, and not expecting an entry level BMW to be as smooth as the MB nor as fast as the mustang.. lol

Thanks


EDIT... Driving a 100K miles 10 years old MB is not an option; paying cash is not an option or a need at this moment in time, and realistically with the miles I drive I NEED a reliable car, hence no MB that I could pay cash would be worthwhile... If I was worried about car pmts I keep my Mustang... but I am NOT going to deal with the head aches of break downs, not in a german car nor an american. You can see my last 100 posts on here 3-4 years ago were all about "how much is this to fix" or "how do I change this part".. I'm done and been done for years in driving something that I have to work on to keep on the road. I love working on my cars but for fun, NOT to get me back on the road or to get me to the office on Mon am. lol.. thanks :)

Never lease a car. Never borrow money to buy a car. Pay cash; if you don't have enough cash, buy a cheaper car.

Thanks for the thought. I'll keep that in mind, :P when I have $30K sitting around. Pay cash or finance, you are still going to loose money, no way around it. It's a depreciating asset.

Totally wrong.

The numbers and frequency of cars yosshimura is going through, LEASING is the only way to come out on car buying.


LEASE, yosshimura, you'll save a fortune - any car leasing outfit can analyse and customize a lease, and show you in black and white the money you will save in doing so.

He's not living in the real world of new cars in 2010.

Unless he can cite EXACT exampes for you - leasing is dirt cheap for your car buying purposes.

Yes, you lose money either way, but you are going to lose alot more money financing, and continue a cycle of debt with car payments for the rest of your life.

If you can afford $700/month, you should have $30k available. If you don't, you should not be shopping for a new car. Good luck.

That is true, if you feel the need to switch a car every 3 years (yikes) the least crazy route would be to lease. A lease can be negotiated just as easily as buying; the dealer makes the same money either way.

He's going through cars like underwear - there's no way you can come out buying them that frequently - even if every one, no especially if every one is paid for in cash. No way whatsoever.

This guy has lease written all over his MO (modus operendi.)

His money will go further not buying.

He's fixing to drop a fortune on buying a new 2011 BMW.

There's no way a lease is more money than buying a new 2011 BMW, for the time he'll be entertained with one.

I can't get into a new E350 for $700 on a lease, I would be in a C class (I want to be a Mercedes when I grow up, lol)... and I am not really feeling that car. My friend just bought a 2009 with 15k miles, and it's beautiful, though.

You mean LEASE a 2011. The last thing you want to do is BUY NEW to turn around a trade in at the 3 year mark. That's why i entertained the used E350 , as it has already depreciated some...

I don't know if leasing is slightly less stupid than financing under those conditions, but buying a new car every three years makes no sense unless you are liquid enough to pay cash. Leasing simply introduces a third party and reduces your down payment; someone else to profit off the fact that you are buying something you can't afford. Borrowing money to buy/lease a depreciating asset is a great way to reduce your net worth.

It's the same thing, the lease company is buying the car for you and charging an excessive amount to finance the difference between the new cost and the residual value. Do you think the lease company is losing money on the deal? If you had the cash, you could make exactly the same deal.

Leasing a used car is even worse than leasing a new car. However, I would recommend buying a used car (for cash) to avoid the initial depreciation. Let some other sucker pay for the initial deprecation (there are plenty of them out there).

WHO CARES about lease vs purchase vs paying cash .. That wasn't the question, lol... I can make my own financial decisions... my parents let me, really they do!! LOL

Lets get back on track.. Bottom line? Cars will continue to be swapped every 2-3 years... I am not going to drive a car to the ground, just to keep it 4-5 years... thank you..:rolleyes:

The difference is with most brands the bank they own is floating them. So, if MB financial offers a considerably cheap leasing program, they get their units moved, make 1-2% APR on the lease term, and get good steady stream of CPOs at the end of the run.

Head 'em up and LEASE 'em out.

Plain and simple.

No way you can make the same deal. No way whatsoever. Paying cash for a new car to sell it in 3 years is NOT less than a lease. No way whatsoever.

Really?

Regarding car choice, I would buy the used E320/350; IMO, you will get more car for the money and avoid taking a hit on a new car. You should be able to find a decent, low-mileage example for $30k. I'm considering buying a used one for one of my kids (probably in the $15-20k range), it's a good solid car for the price.

I guess you should just go out and find whatever $30,000 car you like the best. The E350 will be a pretty safe bet if unscheduled repairs is all you care about. BMW's program is hard to beat, though. from 0-50,000 miles you don't even have to worry about oil changes or wiper blades, its all covered for free.

I understand that it might be a better deal than you can get from the local bank, but you are still paying more than a cash deal. I leased one new car when I was young, stupid, and broke; it allowed me to drive a car that I couldn't really afford without a down payment. In the long run, I paid too much but I thought I needed a new car. I should have bought something I could afford and saved my pennies. I wouldn't have listened to anyone either, but some of us eventually grow up.

Leasing is the only way to go for this guy.

He'll likely be in a new 400 HP Mustang GT anyway. Or a new E350 or BMW.

No way he can afford buying anything this pricey for 2-3 years outside a lease. None whatsoever.

That's really the best advice, buy whatever you like in your price range. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks, you're the one who has to drive it. Maybe, you will discover that you don't have to replace your car every 3 years if you find something you really like. ;)

Not quite.

The used "$30,000 E350" will be worth $10,000 (if that much) in 3 years - it'll be 6 years old.
A new 2011 E350 lease for 2-3 years will not exceed that out-of-pocket any more than a smidgen. Besides, the new E350 will be 100% net repair cost free. The used E350 will be an at-risk net expense, and be worth jack at 6-years of age.

It looks like we may be having a problem with wants v/s needs here.
If there is a genuine need for such a car, like a job that requires you to transport high end clients that would be unimpressed & so not do biz with some one in a cheaper car, then Joe has the right advice.
If the car is only to build ones ego & impress the neighbors, then lease/finance will be a fool & his money are soon parted.
It is concerning that there is a blanket limit of $700/month, makes one think that it could be a case of ones ego being bigger than ones pocket !
Apart from the sort of situation describe initially, if you are burning a car every couple of years, you may be considering the wrong models. Best get something that does not have the built in longevity. Go for something that will give the cheapest total running cost with the required reliability over the few years you plan on having it. Probably a 4 cylinder ricer. As the OP has stated, he doesnt have the money to pay for the car anyway.

Good points, based on the OPs posts (and the fact that he currently drives a mustang) I assumed he did not "need" this car. Based on the limit of $700, I assumed he couldn't really afford it anyway. If I'm wrong, he should go for it; otherwise, he should buy something in his price range.

My friend is in a smiler situation as you, he drives about 30k-40k miles a year for work. He is on some sort of plan with his company and gets most of his vehicle costs reimbursed, but as part of the deal the car can't be older than 3 model years. He has a 2007 Camry now with about 100k on it that will have to be traded in at the end of the year.

What he does is buy a new Camry or Accord every 3 years, pretty much loaded with the V6, they go for about what your looking to spend, $30kish. If you drive a lot you pretty much have to buy, the wear and tear and mileage kills you in a lease, although 20k isn't to bad you might be able to lease something. Either way its going to be a few bucks a month, he buys the cars and pays $1k a month so he isn't upside down come trade in time.

When you drive that much you want to consider the overall running costs. For example does the car require premium or regular gas? His current Camry gets 30mpg on regular, so fuel costs are reasonable. How long are the tires going to last and what are they going to cost to replace? With cars like the BMW that use run flat performance tires you will be buying a set every year. With something like a Camry or Accord you can get 2-3 years out of a set of tires and they are cheaper to buy. My friend would like to get a high end car but the running costs are pretty high and its just not worth it when you run the numbers. Your better off having two cars, which is what he does. He has a fully restored 1967 Mustang that he drives on the weekends.

Out of your choices the Mustang makes the most sense, but I would get the V6 version and enjoy the better fuel mileage.

Personally I would never lease unless my company was paying for it, eventually I'll do what my uncle does and just pay cash for a new E class or BMW every 3-4 years.

yosshimura,

mind if i ask what you your age and profession? don't read anything into the question, i'm just curious.

Ben

There lies the problem. 20k/year is not that much. I have easily put that much on my SD per year for the last three plus years for easily 1/10 of the money more likely closer to 1/30 the cost he has spent on cars driving the same amount. He WANTS to drive a new car. He does not NEED to drive a new car.

I probably could sell my car right now for what I paid for it 3.5 years ago. Tell me again that all cars are a depreciating asset...

I agree with Craig. If the guy can afford $700/month then he should by a $1000 car and put the $700 per month into a car savings account. 700 x 12 = $8400. In one year he could buy a very nice car for $8400 cash.

value
 

I quite agree.

I just bought a 2009 Mercury Grand Marquis LS Ultimate edition in May of this year for $15,988.

It had a mere 13,150 miles on it, when I bought it for cash;
and the balance of the 3 year / 36 month factory warranty on it when I purchased it from a Ford Mercury dealer who cherry pics good examples from dealer-only auctions.


MSRP was about $29,800 on it new.

This unit was built and put into service in April 2009 as an Avis daily rental in Los Angeles and retired in January 2010.

I paid cash and let someone else eat almost 50% of the depreciation it took after a year.

I added a cat back clone Crown Vic Police Interceptor dual exhaust, and a Police Interceptor full sze spare tire and matching stock wheel, and couldn't be happier, as it is a paid off next to new car, and LOOKS new after I claybarred it, and waxed and detailed it.


At about 19-24 mpg on cheap regular, it has run perfectly and just turned 21,000 miles and is smooth, comfortable, roomy, (room enogh in the back seat too, not only for 3 kids, but room enough back there for them to FIGHT !!), pretty safe, and spacious and I expect to keep it for years. Police and taxi versions prove its durability and toughness.

If I were you I would consider a one year old one, as true dollar for mile value, including depreciation, repairs, insurance, gas mileage, loan interest, etc. (which is the true cost of actual ownership,) they can't be beat by anything out there.

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/DSC07145.jpg



just put a pair of new, regular issue CA. alphanumeric, NON personalized plates on it.:)

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...91/tnjpg01.jpg


The dealer that sold me mine just scooped up 5 more of them, in various colors. All 2010 models, identical to my 2009 one from this same dealer.

http://gridleycountryford.com/powersearch.cfm

They are extremely common in Florida where you are. The last of them (production ends by December 2010 and the St. Thomas Ontario, Canada factory will permanently close then) are beginning to be retired as lightly used rentals right now.

Think outside the box. Pick your color.

My approach is to have a nice, higher-mileage car and a beater car. The beater car fills in when I need to carry something nasty and when the nice car needs work. Next spring for example, while my nice car (1999 BMW 528i, 145,000 miles) spends a week or so on jack stands getting some DIY suspension work, my 1985 300D will get me around.

Not a practical approach for most people, but I like older cars and it works out to be dirt cheap on a cost per mile basis.

When you drive 20K miles / year and you live in an area where there are no subways, and public transportation is a POS, a car is a "need", lol... My daily commute just to and from work is 50 miles round trip.

The thought of getting a new car came about 2 weeks ago...after coming out of the dealer with an $1,100 repair bill for a new a/c compressor, belt, labor, tow bill, and taxi ride (reminded me of the evaporator a/c issues back in the day with the '95 E320, lol) ...I have had my Mustang since it was two years old, so Original owner ate the initial depreciation, car was bought with about 30K miles.. It's been great, no issues, just a battery earlier this year, and now the a/c... (which my two prior MBs would've been so reliable)... car now has 92K... When I got stranded last week with the a/c issue the a/c locked up, and belt snapped, it was pouring rain and I was with my 10 yr old. .. So, I went back and I thought, I typically drive my cars until they roll over 100K miles, drive them to the ground, then just trade it in..after a few repairs and breakdowns lol... NOW I have $1100 invested in the car, so it would be ideal if I could drive it for another 12 months so I can use up my $1,100 investment, lol..

It is my personal opinion that I rather remain liquid vs put all my money in a depreciating asset. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, but that is the system I use... finance a used car every few years, drive it a few years and replace and start the cycle all over again. The $4K-$6K in finance charges that it costs me is acceptable.

I am only at my initial "entertaining" stage of the car replacement, hence the choices are so different. Ideally? There is no ideal, due to the miles and the $350 monthly gas expenses I should be driving Yaris or a Smart car, lol.. but that is not my thing. The choice of the MB or BMW are for personal choice, not for flash.

I do get a car allowance, which I can just pocket the whole thing or use to pay a car payment, but at the end of the day it's a car payment period. Again , I prefer to pay it little by little and KEEP the cash on my end vs just writting a check for the whole thing, and my net worth goes down by that amount.

OLD MB as I did with the 1995? Not an option any longer.

Looking at the forum this am and remembering when I was on here before, I think this forum is more geared towards the do it yourselfer and older MB's... as there is not much talk on money factor, leasing, the new models, etc.. that's fine, but I guess that why the opinions possibly.

On a side note.. this a.m. when I left to work, my brakes had no pressure, I had to make a u turn and go back home. As I was filling in the master cylinder with brake fluid, I glanced over at my neighbor's drive way and thought "if this would've been my prior MB or possibly a new one" , it might end up costing me a trip to the dealer and $1K lol.. scary thought.

BTW, if anyone is concerned of where I have listed that I live, I DO NOT live there, lol.. the demographics where I live are slightly different.. lol

I drive between 40k and 50k per year in a 28 year old car with over 500k miles for a total cost of about $0.30 per mile, including the occasional $1000+ repair. The current IRS/GAO rate is $0.50 per mile, so you can do the math. ;)

Driving 20k miles per year is really nothing, but it's probably still too much to stay within the limits of a lease (another reason not to lease). If you want (not need) a new(er) car, start putting $700 per month in your cookie jar until you can afford one; or you can join most of america and go into debt for your toys; your money, your choice.

IIWY, I'd be in a brand new leased 2011 E350 by sundown. There's not one chance in haites that I'd drive a car that unsafe, none whatsoever.

I went a similar route for my truck. I needed something newer and reliable since I'd be taking so many trips with it.

2003 Cadillac Escalade EXT with 45,000 nukes (avalanche style with odd truck bed)

Original MSRP. $55,000. I paid $16,500. Only repair in 6,000 miles of driving is a $180.00 alternator.

Then again, when I got my BMW X5 a few years old at 24k, and sold 3 years later with 75k, it would have been cheaper to have leased a new one. Once the warranty went off, the car was a nightmare! Originally paid 34k, once it went off warranty I had to sink $5000 in unscheduled repairs to keep it running, and unloaded it for $18000. Thank goodness I sold when I did, though. I ran into the next owners, and the transmission was giving them troubles, the stereo display was giving out, and they couldn't open the driver's side door from the outside.