Around here they call it "oxygenated" and the idea was it supposedly reduces pollution. I found I can get non-ethanol gas from..... the farmer's coop! Yeah, the farmers don't want that ethanol in their gas! Ironic...

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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

Question , Do they put the ethanol in the super as well ??

I started running that in hopes that if so the octane will offset the corn mix &
make a hotter burn.

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Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

I don't think that higher octane will result in a hotter burn. If anything it will result in a cooler, or at least slower, burn. Octane ratings are a measure of a fuel's resistance to detonation. The higher the octane, the less likely you are to have detonation. That's why higher octane allows you to have a higher compression ratio and advanced ignition timing. Before computers, using a low-octane fuel in a motor designed for high octane resulted in detonation, often called knocking or pinging. These days, if you put 87 octane through a motor designed for 93 octane, the knock sensor will pick up the detonation and cause the computer to retard the timing. This all happens without the driver hearing anything. I'm not sure what the motor does when you put 93 octane through a motor designed for 87.

Most of the time using a higher octane fuel is a waste of money. There were some cars that would exploit the fuel octane by advancing the spark to the onset of detonation. Older SAAB turbos did this and the engine respoded well to increased octane. But 93 octane was required as a start, so one had to search for higher octane fuel.

Here's an article link a friend e-mailed me -

http://www.newsmax.com/US/ethanolgasolinenewcars/2010/10/13/id/373512

Looks as if it's already "mandated" for 2007 and newer vehicles, and the EPA will decide later if it's feasible to mandate it for 2001 thru 2006 vehicles.

As was said earlier in this thread, if they allow the gas stations to supply the earlier E10 and "straight" unleaded alongside E15, how in the devil are they going to force people to buy E15 only if they have one of the MY vehicles listed?

Only two ways I can think of - one would be taking a page from the diesel playbook - having a dye or chemical tracer in off-road untaxed diesel fuel - and doing the same with E15. But that would be an utter nightmare for law enforcement - it's one thing to randomly "dip" the tanks of the relative handful of POV diesels on the road - quite another to try doing that for the literally millions of POV gas vehicles from those model years running around.

The second way - which would be far easier for the EPA and all levels of government to enforce - is in the end to force gas stations to sell ONLY E15. And if you have an older vehicle that would have problems running E15, they'd simply say "sucks to be you - retrofit your vehicle or buy a new one".

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Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club

Seeing as it is a govt idea, I think I will go along with the 2nd version. Anyone want to give me odds that it won't be that?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

No bet there. If you're a gas station owner with only X number of tanks to store the different grades of gas you sell, and the government says you HAVE to sell E15 for newer vehicles, guess what? - you're only going to be selling E15.

That raises another can of worms - besides older vehicles that would have problems running it, what about older gas stations who's tanks may not be of the proper construction or material to store E15, much less their pumps, piping, etc?

From what I've read, the refineries and pipeline operators refuse to blend in ethanol, even to E10, until the gas has been delivered to the terminal - given the age of most fuel pipelines, they refuse to pump ethanol-blended fuel thru them due to the possibility of corrosion - the ethanol is blended in at the terminal prior to loading it on a tanker and delivering it to the gas stations.

If the oil companies won't even pump this stuff thru their own equipment due to the potential problems it would cause, why in hell should I take the EPA's word at face value and just assume it'll be fine to use in my own vehicle?

We mentione ULSD earlier - couple months ago I ran across a couple articles where there's a big behind-the-scenes stink in the industry - seems that many terminals and fueling station are having to replace pumps, valves, etc, after only 2 to 3 years because they're already corroded to crap from pumping ULSD thru them - where before they would last for literally decades pumping the older grades of diesel fuel. Seems they think the problem is two fold - one, ULSD is more hygroscopic that the older LSD (ie, absorbs more moisture) - two, one of the processes for creating ULSD involves running the fuel thru a salt bed to remove any moisture from it after it's been hydrocracked.

__________________
Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club

Gasoline shipped through pipelines is and has always been, just gasoline. And it comes from many different refiners. Anti-knock additives, oxygenators, detergents etc are all added at the terminus. These additives are locally specified, which is why none of them are added by the refineries, not because of corrosion.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a good conspiracy theory started with guys like you around????

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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
1994 GMC Jimmy - 203000

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3nnss8PAj5aU/giphy.gif

I agree with the comment they cannot move ethanol via the pipelines.

I don't know why, but I have heard it reported on the news regularly.

It must be shipped by Tanker, truck or rail.

Again, thats what I have heard repeatedly on the business news.

So anyone here know how A pipeline can ship various fuels, diesel, company A gas, company B gas etc and keep them separate.

They put a huge bubble of air between each "shipment", the pressure is maintained to keep the bubble intact. When it reaches the terminal, the equipment senses the bubble and routes the next shipment to the appropriate tank.

With that in mind there should be no reason they can't move ethanol via pipe lines. Even as a separate fuel, unless there are other issue's.

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KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

Fuels shipped by pipeline are not kept separated by producer. When the pipeline pushes gasoline, the various refiners get out the quantity they put in and what they get out was likely not made by them. This is why basic products, without additives, are shipped by pipeline.
It's certainly possible to ship ethanol by pipeline, but currently there are no piplelines from the ethanol producing areas to the areas were it is needed. A few pipelines are in the works.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/11/news/companies/ethanol_pipeline.fortune/

Well Love Canal was Hooker Chemical........They sold off a chunk of land and some one started putting houses on it.

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86 300SDL. 250,xxx on #14 Head. One eye always on temp gauge.. Cruising towards 300K

Probably the same reason that you can't run ethanol in a car not designed for it. It will eat parts of the fuel system. I assume that it will eat parts of the pipeline.

Ethanol can be moved by pipeline. The reason it's not currently moved that way is because there are no pipelines in corn country.

Well of course. Absence of the equipment would tend to be a problem.